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Story Continues: They tell me how I am a fraud and a cheat and how Jane is turning in her grave.
Barrie Responds: I can only speak for myself. I am not calling you a fraud. To be a fraud, you would have to consciously know it is not Seth and still pretend it is in order to manipulate people. I don’t believe that. I believe, rightly or wrongly, that YOU believe that it is Seth. To me, that doesn’t make you are fraud. I believe you are mistaken, and you refuse to seriously examine your beliefs in this area—because it doesn’t serve your purposes to do so—and it threatens your self-worth and self-esteen. You have your “personal truth” and you refuse to examine or challenge at it. This, I believe, ultimately will stunt your own inner growth.
That said, I do believe that IF Jane was still alive, she would say that Seth says he is not communicating with you and she WOULD be upset and would ask you to stop—as she did with others. Here is an example of she felt and how I believe she would still feel today IF she was alive:
Jane (from Dreams, Evolution, & Value Fulfillment--Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And--very troublesome to me--came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being contaminated, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, Seth speaks only through me, to protect the integrity of the material. And it is indeed that contract between him and me that always assures you of the authenticity of Seth's work...And it is indeed that contract between him and me that always assures you of the authenticity of Seth’s work.... I’m deeply outraged that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth can so easily fool themselves when they claim to be speaking for Seth – be so blind to their own motives, or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. They’re also using my work to validate their own...."
Story Continues: These Seth fans of course only represent a minority, but they have successfully silenced and shamed many people who believe they are channeling Seth.
Barrie Responds: Again, Story, Seth said he would only communicate thru Jane—yet there are many people actually channeling him today? This is really very self-serving of you and so dismissive of Seth and Jane. By the way, how do you know “many people have been silence and shamed?” One, 10, 100, 2000? You don’t know. No one should be shamed or silenced—BUT what matters is the TRUTH of what Jane and Seth actually said. And how many of them actually are channeling Seth? All, some, most, one?
Why don’t you open up your eyes and take your first baby steps of self-examination in this area: First, what did Seth and Jane actually say on this topic; and second—what does what they say mean?
The simple explanation is that YOU, right now, contribute to the contamination of the Seth Material—regardless of how GREAT your material is or may or may not be—because you are using the name SETH—and in time—you, Mark Frost, and others, along with Jane’s work—will all get blended together—and Seth’s work with Jane will be contaminated—with you playing a large part--with your self-righteous indignation and your refusal to actually examine the whole of the situation.
As for myself, I do not attempt to, support or advocate the silencing or shaming of anyone. BUT I DO attempt discussion on the topic...but of course you have blocked me and so you seem to run from it.
Story Continues: I would like to say that even if they are right and “people like Story Waters use Seth as a SYMBOL for their own inner communications” I am appalled by the energy in which they choose to communicate and I am writing this page in an attempt to extricate myself from the unpleasantness of being within their focus.
Barrie Responds: Holy shit. That’s me you’re quoting. Those are my words. So you block me, read my words, comment on them without even trying to discuss them with me—and actually understand what I say and why. Instead, you are content to project your own emotions into them. So I ask the person with his eyes and ears shut, what do you mean that you are “appalled by the energy in which they choose to communicate.” Energy appalls you? When you block something, it seems more powerful. Blocked water can knock over great walls, but if it is allowed its natural flow—the wall and the water stand tall.
But here is where I have strong disagreement with what Story says—and it also displays an ignorance on Story’s part. Let me explain:
Story Said: I am appalled by the energy in which they choose to communicate and I am writing this page in an attempt to extricate myself from the unpleasantness of being within their focus.
Barrie Comments: I just realized, it appears that YOU are the one trying to shame and silence people, those who challenge your use of the name “Seth” – those you claim are trying to silence and shame others. That is part of the projection at play here.
Speaking about myself now, WHY would you feel “appalled” because I want to help maintain the integrity of the Seth Material?
Even IF you disagree with me on that, you should at least understand my motives and NOT feel “appalled.” You feel appalled because you are taking it all very personally. As you have said above, you have your pride and sense of self-worth tied up in presenting your material; and you feel if someone is “attacking” the material, then they are attacking you—and THAT IS pretty appalling. You seem to display an ignorance concerning WHY people are upset with your use of the name “Seth.”
Why not examine your beliefs and ask WHY this is all happening to you instead of blocking it all out? Ask WHY you find it so unpleasant? Ask WHAT these folks are actually talking about? This path would certainly “extricate yourself from (any) unpleasantness.”
All that said, you have not once addressed anything online that I have seen concerning this issue. Have you? If so, I’d love to see it and discuss it.
Story Continues: Seth has given me solid reasons for his statement in Seth Speaks.
Barrie Responds: First of all, this is a circular argument. You are using your own say-so as proof. Seth has given you no reasons at all. The inner voice you CLAIM is Seth gave you these reasons. It’s like if I said, “People over six-feet tall and evil. I know so because I say so.”
I find it ironic that Story invokes the Bible in his attempt to put down those who question him, and yet doesn’t challenge his own thoughts—but accepts them as if THEY were the Bible.
You can’t sincerely say: “This is Seth. My proof is that I believe it is Seth because he said he was Seth...my unique Seth who I think of as The Universal Teacher.”
I see that as your unrecognized CONFESSION, if you will, that you are using the name of “Seth” as a symbol for what you see as The Universal Teacher that talks to you from within. It’s a perfect explanation.
Story Continues: However, as my whole purpose in writing this page is to exit the debate and say that I am making no claim because my work stands alone, I have no wish to fuel the debate by publicly sharing these ideas any longer.
Barrie Responds: Hold on a moment, Story. You’ve blocked people for a long time already. You exited this debate...but something is nagging at you inside...and that is what you wish to have exit you. What debate have you been engaged in, that you are now exiting?
It seems to me that this is just a fancy excuse to further avoid the issue. And you ARE MAKING A CLAIM. You are claiming to speak for your unique Seth—and claiming that brings all the legendary attention that the Seth mane has in this area or field—and it IS profiting from Jane’s work regardless of how you say it is your Seth, and not Jane’s Seth.
Also, where have you shared your ideas on this. Anyone—let me know for I’d LOVE TO SEE IT, read it, and discuss it—and see what comes from that. This sounds like some sort of, again, self-righteous declaration of indignation: “How dare some people have the appalling gall to challenge my use of the name Seth.”
You keep pointing to that one quote in Seth Speaks, which tells me you have no idea what Seth and Jane actually said on this...yet, of course, you are channeling Seth. You got SO EXCITED believing this inner voice was Seth, it blinds you to honestly try to uncover the truth of what is actually going on.
Story Continues: With the free examples of my work that I provide below there is no reason for anyone to purchase anything from me to see if I am channeling their idea of Seth. It may surprise some to know that I asked Seth repeatedly after he first appeared if I could use a different name because I know how hateful and rigid this world can be. Seth said ‘No way buster!’ and I continue to trust in his advice.
Barrie Responds: Again, it is not a question if someone believes you are channeling Seth or not; or their “idea of Seth.”. THE PROBLEM IS—that people believe it—and even if they don’t—you leave behind “Seth” quotes and “Seth” books—and in time—it will all blend together with Mark Frost’s work, and others, and Jane’s—and it would all just be the “Seth material” – a conglomerate of conflicting material not worth looking too deeply into because it is so contradictory. You keep focusing on YOU—that you don’t or can’t see the true issues involved here.
Story Continues: So, with my head held high, I will continue to walk forward into my unfolding experience of Self and share my heartfelt message in the knowing that I am not the cause of the pain and anger in the hearts of those that seek to silence or shame me.
Barrie Responds: Geez, what self-rightousness. You have both hands patting your back, how do you adjust your blinders? But you have inspired me to say: So, with my head held high, I will continue to walk forward into MY unfolding experience of Self and share my heartfelt messages.
But...so what? None of this is the issue...of who walks with his or her head held high. The issue is your use of the name “Seth” and your seeming refusal to examine or discuss it.
As I said earlier, my goal is to discuss your use of the name “Seth.” I have said nothing about the quality of your work. That is not the issue. If your work was totally shitty in my opinion, or super great—and even BETTER than Seth himself--the PROBLEM would still be the same—it would STILL be contaminating Seth’s work with Jane and ruining its integrity and authenticity.
You don’t seem to grasp this AT ALL. You seem so caught up in defending your self-worth and ego—and ironically possibly trying to shame and silence those who you claimwish to shame and silence you. This is very sad, indeed.
Story Continues: Oprah often asks people ‘What do you know for sure?’ I know for sure that Jane Roberts is proud of me and everything I am achieving in my life. She has no desire for her contribution to be static. She is my inspiration and the reason I am alive.
Barrie Responds: Don’t make me puke. This is too much. Again, on your own say-so, despite what Jane and Seth actually and repeatedly said, you “know for sure that Jane Roberts is proud of (you) and everything (you are) achieving in (your) life.” Er, and how do you KNOW that? Oh, you say so.
Then, you have the audacity to declare, “She has no desire for her contribution to be static.” That flies in the face of what she and Seth repeatedly said—and in the face of the obvious and everyday logic and reason WHY they said it—they wanted to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material—so it would NOT get mixed up with people like you would come along claiming that, too, speak for Seth.
She may be your “inspiration and the reason why (you) are alive.” Seth wanted to inspire people to find their OWN voice, and not to mistake his voice for theirs—and Jane supported that, too. But being thus inspired doesn’t make your claims any more TRUE. I may be inspired to practice basketball every day for 10 hours a day, but that doesn’t mean I am channeling Wilt Chamberlain or will soon be on the New York Knicks.
You don’t KNOW what Jane thinks or feels—obviously not back then when she wrote it outright—and certainly not now that she has passed on. All this is your very subjective opinions based on nothingyou’re your beliefs and thought—and perhaps some other subjective inner experiences.
You believe it, for sure. I believe that you believe it. But IF you claim to know it because your channeled Jane or Seth told you, then that exposes the shallowness of your examination of what is going on. Jane and Rob spent years challenging Seth and questioning themselves as to what is going on. They didn’t say “I know it is Seth because Seth says so.” Yet, here you are saying just that—and using JANE and YOUR Seth as your proof. Two personalities that actually engaged in years of proving that Seth was who he said he was.
Perhaps your fear and insecurity are so tied up in your use of the name “Seth,” that you refuse to examine any truth behind it. Rather, you say, “It is true because I say it is true.”
Story Concludes: Free Seth-Jane Gift Collection--five hours of free recordings to allow you to decide if
you resonate with Story's message through Seth.
Barrie Concludes: There you go again, missing the point. It is NOT a question or issue if people resonate with your message. Rather, it is your use of the name “Seth” that is the issue.
And this closing “blurb” of yours exemplifies the problem: This is your “message through Seth.” Well, that phrase is the exact problem with using the name “Seth.” People read that and read, “Oh, his message thru Seth.” And Mark Frost has HIS “message thru Seth” ETC. It becomes real issue from “your version of Seth” or “your Seth” – to just become SETH.
And as I said, people will hear talk about what “Seth” said, you will quote what “Seth” said and one day people will see your books and Jane’s books and Frost’s books and others, and they may say, “Oh look there ANOTHER book by a lady named Jane Roberts...that’s also Seth, too.” And all this books and quotes will eventually BLEND together and the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material will get ruined—despite any of the claims and comments you just made here.
And your declaration to refuse discussion, just seals the ignorant deal. I say “ignorant” – because when discussion gets cut off—ALL remain ignorant and frozen in the place where the walls were put up and the silence began.
In summary, by using the name of Seth, after saying it is not Jane’s Seth, is even worse than thinking it is Jane’s Seth. You are capitalizing on someone else’s work by using the popular and legendary name of Seth. Imagine if I started writing posts using the name “Story Waters” – but I said it was my Story Waters – and then soon dropped that and just said, “Story Waters now says that he was a delusional phony. He wants to apologizd to everyone and asks them to throw away his books” – or whatever else I wanted. What if I started to give lectures as you, or channeling you, and said whatever I wanted? Do you think you, the real Story Waters would just say, “Oh, that’s OK..we are all One Consciousness?” I doubt it. And even if you did, I would disagree with you on that. I would be stealing YOUR name, even if I say it isn’t your name.
As promised, here are some brief Seth excerpts on how and why he would not communicate thru anyone else other than Jane (and that he needed Rob as well):
Here are ten brief examples of Seth and Jane explaining clearly that Seth would never communicate thru anyone else—not via speaking, automatic writing, and so forth. I’ve added the CAPS for emphasis only:
Seth (Session 15): "Joseph, your part in these sessions is extremely important. Without your participation they could not have begun, nor could they continue. Because of our past alliances the three of us are closely bound together. However, I need the two of you in order to come through at all.
Jane (from Dreams, Evolution, & Value Fulfillment--Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And--very troublesome to me--came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL. AND IT IS INDEED THAT CONTRACT BETWEEN HIM AND ME THAT ALWAYS ASSURES YOU OF THE AUTHENTICITY OF SETH'S WORK...”
Jane (Seth Material; Ch.9): "Several people have told me that Seth communicated with them through automatic writing, but Seth denies any such contacts, saying that his communications will be limited to his work with me, in order that the INTEGRITY of the Seth Material be preserved."
Jane (Ch.9, Seth Material): “Mrs. Brian had a terrific headache while reading the article (about Seth); suddenly she thought she felt Seth's presence. An inner voice, pre¬sumably Seth's, told her that she had been feeling sorry for herself that she must stop brooding over her health at once, get up, and go out for a walk. If so, she would improve at once....
“We asked Seth about the incident. In this case, he said, Mrs. Brian had used him as a symbol of her inner self, or supraconsciousness, to deliver help and healing influences as well as advice. The experience helped the woman to use her own abilities, and the idea of Seth enabled her to activate her own healing forces.”
Seth (Session 454): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me...I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT, simply because there must never be any doubt of the origin of the Seth material.”
Seth (Session 463): It is quite natural that others...who are experimenting should go through a stage in which it seems to them they are receiving information from me. Suggestion operates, and any trance deeper than ordinary for them can be interpreted in these terms. He (Ruburt) should understand this, and explain it simply to his students.”
Seth (Session 463): "Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE.
Seth (Session 510): "While MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material...”
Seth (Session 876, from God of Jane): "A woman wrote that she was involved with. . . correspondences in which I was communicating with her, and she was certain that this would prove beyond a doubt my own independent nature, since I [would have given] messages to another medium besides Ruburt. The woman was quite convinced of that.
"Other people have written that I have given them such messages. Another woman dreamed of me, and had an experience in which a child was definitely healed. Now, I did not communicate with those women—but their belief in me helped each of them use certain abilities. One woman has done some writing—not very good—but still, those abilities came to the fore. The other woman was able to use her own healing abilities.
----END PART TWO OF TWO----