Where is Seth now? Is there any more contact with either Ruburt or Seth?


#21

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As I said, Story Waters is one of these people. He posted comments about Seth on one of his pages. I treated his comments as a post and responded to them as such. Below is my responses to Story–which he refuses to even look at. He refuses to communicate with me and seems to not want to be questioned. Instead he (and Frost and others) make their declarations about channeling Seth with no one to challenge those claims. Instead, they make up and answer to weak challenges they create for themselves to answer–ignoring the real challenges.

Please note that I am not attempting to judge or assess the quality of Story’s work. It matters not if it is the best material ever possible in this universe, or the worst…they both EQUALLY would contaminate the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material.

Now, for Story’s story and my responses (CAPS are for emphasis only; not yelling). I am responding to the following webpage that Story created for “fans of Seth and Jane Roberts to decide if they may be interested in Seth channeled by myself. As well as my answer to the question of ‘Are they the same Seth?’” (grammatical/punctuation errors verbatim from original text). This is the site: http://limitlessness.org/Seth/

Story Writes: Welcome! I have created this page to allow fans of Seth and Jane Roberts to decide if they may be interested in Seth channeled by myself. As well as my answer to the question of ‘Are they the same Seth?’ just below, you will also find over five hours of key Seth-Jane recordings to allow you to experience their energies such that you can feel if you resonate with these new materials on their own merits, free of charge. If you don’t know who Seth and Jane Roberts are then just enjoy the free materials and meeting these spectacular energies!

Barrie Responds: If they are different “Seths”—then find another name to use and not “steal” all the hard work than Jane put into her material. Resonating with the “new” material is no validation or explanation concerning if it is actually Seth or not. IF is not Seth, don’t use the name “Seth.” If it IS Seth, then don’t say it is not.

Website Question: Story, is the Seth you channel the same as the one channeled by Jane Roberts?

Story Continues: Short Answer: No, please reference the materials produced by Jane Roberts for that experience of Seth. My work stands alone as it is founded on the specific idea that we are all One Consciousness. I do not therefore present my work as being a continuation of Jane’s work. I wish to state clearly that the Seth I channel is unique to me in just the same way that it was unique to Jane.

Barrie Responds: This “Short Answer” is simply a declaration—couched in platitudes. It is still using the name “Seth” and saying it is a different Seth. I would suggest then NOT to use the name Seth if you wanted to avoid confusion and not piggyback on Jane’s work. It is the USE of the name Seth that is the problem. Once you have a number of Seth’s running around, leaving quotes and books behind—the actual Seth of Jane—gets lost in the mix and over time—all the “Seth” quotes get mixed together and the integrity of Seth’s material with Jane gets lost. It doesn’t even matter if this “Seth” is totally not related to Jane at all. The use of the name contaminates Jane’s Seth’s work and rides its coattails. This “short answer” is simply a meaningless “no” – with no validation, proof or anything. Stop using the name.

Story Continues: Long Answer: As with all channels, the Seth presented through Jane Roberts is a union of consciousness that produces something unique. The Seth that I present, though having similarities of personality and the message that you create your reality, sounds different and talks with a different focus and intention. I do not present my work in any way as a continuation of the work Jane produced. The content I am producing with my experience of Seth (and Jane) stands alone.

Barrie Responds: Who cares if you claim to be continuing her work or not. You are USING THE NAME—which contaminates Jane’s work with Seth. Do you think Seth would just start speaking thru you—being so different—as you say—and still use the name Seth—just to confuse everyone and contaminate his own work with Jane? Please. So…a similar message, sounds different, talks with a different focus and intention—then MAYBE you should drop the name of Seth. If something walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it may be a duck. BUT if something does not walk like a duck or talk like a duck, then don’t call it a duck.

Story Continues: Despite my personal belief that I am communicating with the vast state of consciousness I first experienced through Jane’s books (which I also refer to as The Universal Teacher), I do not make any such claim because the message in my heart does not require this association and is in fact muddied by debate over it. I wish to state clearly that the Seth I channel is unique to me in just the same way as it was unique to Jane.

Barrie Responds: I have to say this now…I’ve been trying to avoid the term…but this is really such bullshit. I’m not saying whatever Story channels is bullshit or not—but this reasoning is really pathetic, in my opinion. He is so clearly doing what do many have done before him—using Seth’s name as a symbol for his own inner communications. He is using Seth’s name to symbolize his “Universal Teacher.” Jane’s Seth addressed this:

Jane’s Seth (Session 463): “It is quite natural that others in (Jane’s) acquaintanceship (like reading the books) who are experimenting should go through a stage in which it seems to them they are receiving information from me. Suggestion operates, and any trance deeper than ordinary for them can be interpreted in these terms. He should understand this, and explain it simply to his students.”

Barrie Comments: This is what Story is doing. It is also what Mark Frost is doing. And others. Seth said he would not communicate thru anyone else but Jane in order to keep his work authentic and to maintain it’s integrity…So, what do you think? He would just forsake that idea after she dies and speak thru 3, 4,6, 10 other people?

Seth (Session 876): ‘Now, I did not communicate with those women – but their belief in me helped each of them use certain abilities.’

Barrie Comments: This, too, explains what is happening with Story. He was a Seth reader and his appreciation of Seth helped him to use his abilities and so he used the name “Seth” as a symbol for “The Universal Teacher” – which is probably what Story believed of Seth.

I believe that Story is disingenuous when he says, in effect, “This is not Seth…but just listen to me and I’ll tell you what Seth now says…”

Story Had Said: I wish to state clearly that the Seth I channel is unique to me in just the same way as it was unique to Jane.

Barrie Comments: So what? He is USING THE NAME…cashing in on Jane’s work—by declaring it is a different Seth—but it is Seth saying this and Seth saying that and come to my Seth conference, etc. This doesn’t mean it actually IS Seth…unique to you or not? What do you think Seth was? A God? The Universal Teacher? Well, a universal teacher could go by ANY name? Why use Seth which cashes in on Jane’s work and contaminates it–and confuses the issue.

Every person who claims to communicate for Seth firmly believes it. Either they are correct and Seth is a fool for stating he would or only communicate thru Jane; OR he changed his mind and no longer cares about its authenticity and integrity; OR they are mistaken and it isn’t Seth—as Seth has repeated each and every time. It seems obvious that they are mistaken…as Seth has explained:

Seth (Session 876, from God of Jane): "A woman wrote that she was involved with. . . correspondences in which I was communicating with her, and she was certain that this would prove beyond a doubt my own independent nature, since I [would have given] messages to another medium besides Ruburt. The woman was quite convinced of that.

"Other people have written that I have given them such messages. Another woman dreamed of me, and had an experience in which a child was definitely healed. Now, I did not communicate with those women—but their belief in me helped each of them use certain abilities. One woman has done some writing—not very good—but still, those abilities came to the fore. The other woman was able to use her own healing abilities.

And, of course, there is the issue of maintaining the integrity and authenticity of the work.

In short, IF I stole Story’s identify, or anyone else’s reading this—I don’t think you would accept my explanation that it was OK because it was a YOU that was unique to me. What actual IS unique to Story, is that it IS actually his OWN inner voice, which IS unique to him.

Story Continues: Only if you are intrigued by a channeler who sees Seth and Jane as his teachers and whose work is in alignment with theirs, should you look at my work.

Barrie Responds: Again, you are connecting your work to Seth and Jane, while claiming it is your version of Seth—implying no connection to the Seth of Jane. This just seems so insincere to me. In any case, remember that this is not about you, Story, it is about using the name SETH. It doesn’t matter what your reasoning is, your explanations or your excuses are, the very USE of the name “Seth” is what cashes in on Jane’s work while contaminating it and ruining its integrity. Don’t you think a “Universal Teacher” could easily have gone by another name? But that wouldn’t suit you purposes—perhaps you subconscious purposes—but nevertheless—it wouldn’t have served them—because you then could not tie the work into Seth and Jane.

Story Continues: Further down this page I offer extensive samples of Seth through myself freely so you can decide for yourself if you are interested in my work purely on its own merits as I in no way wish to profit by using the name Seth.

Barrie Responds: Story, IF you really don’t wish to profit by using the name “Seth” – then DO NOT USE IT. Again, it is not a question about IF people like your work or not—it IS a question of using the name “Seth” which was a well-known legendary name you ARE profiting from. Switch to another name—and then you would cease stealing that name for yourself—either accidentally or otherwise. The issue would be gone.

I do find it disingenuous again, that you claim to want people to be interested in your “work purely on its own merits” – and yet you persist on using such a well-known legend-in-the-business as “Seth” – which will attract and draw many, many more people in precisely because of the name. Stand on your own two metaphorical feet, please.

Story Continues: I use the name purely because it is my personal truth and I am not going be pressured into not speaking my truth by the religious fundamentalism of those that claim to be the most devout Seth followers.

Barrie Responds: That is no excuse or justification at all…because it is your personal truth. People MURDER because of their personal truths—it doesn’t justify their murder, either…and acting on your “personal truth” doesn’t make it TRUE—nor is it proof or validation that is IS true. If it was my personal truth that I am Stephen King, it would not justify me writing stories or getting a credit card in his name.

The terrorists’ “personal truth” is that they will go to Heaven or whatever if they die killing the infidels. People who rob banks do so because THEIR personal truth tells them it is OK to do so; and on and on.

What people who are sincerely trying to be honest do—is to EXAMINE their personal truths and see if they HOLD UP after an examination. They don’t just say, “This is my personal truth and therefore it is my personal truth and that is why it is correct and why I do it.”

Story Continues: I am very proud of the heart, clarity and power of my work and for myself it is the evolution, not replication, of what I learnt through Jane.

Barrie Responds: Now, this is very important here. You have your pride and ego tied up in your work—and so if I say that it is not actually Seth—you feel attacked in some way—or threatened—as if I am challenging you, your pride, your worthiness, your ego—or the quality of your work. I am NOT DOING THAT. That is not in my heart to do. I wish for you to be proud, happy and continue your inner quests and teachings, if that is what you want. ALL I am saying and/or trying to discuss—all I am challenging is your use of the name, Seth. I am not challenging your pride, your worthiness, or the QUALITY of your work. Just the use of the name, Seth.

Story Continues: With the concept that there is only one consciousness in existence, The One Self Teachings see through the illusion of separation and make the question of ‘Which Seth is this?’ entirely redundant. Through all that I learnt through Jane and her Seth, my message is a shining example of the impact of Jane’s life upon this world and I will continue to seek to share that gift.

Barrie Responds: Man, Story, are you mixing all things up. Let’s take this one statement at a time:

Story Said: With the concept that there is only one consciousness in existence, The One Self Teachings see through the illusion of separation and make the question of ‘Which Seth is this?’ entirely redundant.

Barrie Responds: What does this have to do with using Seth’s name? We are One and we are Separate—even tho we are One and connected. We are still individuals giving our unique and individual perspective back to the Oneness so IT can learn and grow.

That said, the question, “Which Seth is this?” – is NOT about any oneness…it is about ruining the integrity of the Seth Material thru Jane—because all the different “Seth” quotes and books—over time—will all blend together…and the contradictions and weaknesses and conflicting differences—will contaminate the material and make a murky mess—that has no more consistency or authenticity. THIS is what Jane and Seth wanted to prevent.

Even tho you are not trying to make this next argument, all you say can be used by an actual person who steals someone else’s identify. Isn’t the question, “Which Joe is this?” entirely redundant.

It makes a HUGE difference to Joe, I assume, IF someone steals his identify even tho from one of the more expansive perspectives “We Are One.”

Story Continues: Through all that I learnt through Jane and her Seth, my message is a shining example of the impact of Jane’s life upon this world and I will continue to seek to share that gift.

Barrie Responds: Yes, this I agree with. YOUR message may be a shining example, of Jane’s work—but that impact is for people to explore inside and find their OWN voice—and not mistake it for Seth’s voice. Keep exploring, JUST DON’T STEAL THE NAME “SETH.” Call who you speak for UT, or Universal Teacher, and THEN credit Seth and Jane for inspiring you. THAT WOULD BE GREAT. But that is not what you are doing. You are USING the name Seth—which IS stealing it from Jane.

Seth wanted to inspire people in that manner:

Seth (ESP Class, 4-17-73): “If you are quick, and if you are intuitive, and if you are courageous, and if some evening you listen to my voice in the proper mood, then you can follow yourself to the heart of yourself, using the voice as a road or vehicle.”

Story Continues: Further Context: For those not understanding the cause of this debate, here is a little context. Jane Roberts channeled Seth from the mid-sixties to mid-eighties and was a complete pioneer in the field. Her books are incredible and highly revered. I was given my first Seth book by someone who recognized that I was beginning to channel in my early twenties and it changed my life.

Barrie Responds: It sure did.

Story Continues: There is always debate over the authenticity of channels, but this is heightened with Seth as he said in Seth Speaks “I will never speak through anyone other than Ruburt (Jane), simply because there must never be any doubt of the origin of the Seth material.”

Barrie Responds: NO, Story. No, no, no. He did NOT just say it there. He said it all over the place, thru-out the lifespan of the material—and it was also reiterated by Jane and Rob. It is NOT just this ONE THING that Seth said in Seth Speaks. BUT you seem unwilling or unable to accept this, see this, or whatever this. It is NOT primarily this one statement that causes the debate. By keeping your focus always on this one quote…I’m not sure if you are being fully dishonest or just ignorant concerning what Seth actually said.

Story Continues: It is primarily because of this statement that I receive hate-mail from people with the exact same energy as people who quote the bible as law.

Barrie Responds: Again, it is NOT “primarily because of this statement.” As an aside, I don’t support anyone sending hate mail. And these comments, and my posts to you which you blocked, likewise were not “hate posts” or “hate mail” – altho it is frustrating sometimes to try to discuss something with someone who refuses to address the real issues—like you do. I can’t speak for others who write to you, and I can’t know for sure what they said or what their energy is. Obviously, you speak of your interpretation of that energy and of their words. But in any case, I speak for myself—with my evidence and explanations. All you have done so far, or people who control your pages, have blocked me from discussing it or contacting you to discuss it.

Do you notice how you throw in your insult there, characterizing people as if they are defending some religion and not giving much thought? Is that YOUR hate? Perhaps you are projecting your own hate onto everyone who challenges you?

Let me just clarify and speak for myself: I believe everyone is free to and should disagree with Seth whenever they do. They should always trust themselves over Seth, me…or you.
As you may know, I attended Seth class. I saw Seth speak thru Jane. That does NOT deify Seth & his words in my mind–it HUMANIZES Seth & his words. I never thought of Seth as a God when he sat in the chair & talked.

If anyone knows the humanness of Seth/Jane–it is someone who attended class. Maybe reading his words a person can drift into deification, but you can’t unpickle a cubumber. Once you see Seth/Jane speak, you cannot think of Seth/Jane as a God or as speaking gospel.

Seth (ESP Class, 12-19-72): “Seth Speaks should be called You Speak and You Speak and You Speak. So listen to yourselves.

Barrie Comments: And, Seth has often said, that the vitality and energy of his voice is but a dim echo of the vitality & energy of our own selves & voices. And, when you ask a question it means that you already have the answers somewhere inside you–so go find it.

These words and concepts do not induce someone to look at Seth as a God or his material as the Bible. Just the opposite. They inspire people to look within and find and listen to their own voice.

Have you ever considered that the people who challenge you ARE listening to their own voice, and perhaps YOU have created the religion and quote yourself and your “Seth” as the Bible—with no other proof, EVER, than your own say-so?
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#22

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Story Continues: They tell me how I am a fraud and a cheat and how Jane is turning in her grave.

Barrie Responds: I can only speak for myself. I am not calling you a fraud. To be a fraud, you would have to consciously know it is not Seth and still pretend it is in order to manipulate people. I don’t believe that. I believe, rightly or wrongly, that YOU believe that it is Seth. To me, that doesn’t make you are fraud. I believe you are mistaken, and you refuse to seriously examine your beliefs in this area—because it doesn’t serve your purposes to do so—and it threatens your self-worth and self-esteen. You have your “personal truth” and you refuse to examine or challenge at it. This, I believe, ultimately will stunt your own inner growth.

That said, I do believe that IF Jane was still alive, she would say that Seth says he is not communicating with you and she WOULD be upset and would ask you to stop—as she did with others. Here is an example of she felt and how I believe she would still feel today IF she was alive:

Jane (from Dreams, Evolution, & Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being contaminated, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, Seth speaks only through me, to protect the integrity of the material. And it is indeed that contract between him and me that always assures you of the authenticity of Seth’s work…And it is indeed that contract between him and me that always assures you of the authenticity of Seth’s work… I’m deeply outraged that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth can so easily fool themselves when they claim to be speaking for Seth – be so blind to their own motives, or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. They’re also using my work to validate their own…"

Story Continues: These Seth fans of course only represent a minority, but they have successfully silenced and shamed many people who believe they are channeling Seth.

Barrie Responds: Again, Story, Seth said he would only communicate thru Jane—yet there are many people actually channeling him today? This is really very self-serving of you and so dismissive of Seth and Jane. By the way, how do you know “many people have been silence and shamed?” One, 10, 100, 2000? You don’t know. No one should be shamed or silenced—BUT what matters is the TRUTH of what Jane and Seth actually said. And how many of them actually are channeling Seth? All, some, most, one?

Why don’t you open up your eyes and take your first baby steps of self-examination in this area: First, what did Seth and Jane actually say on this topic; and second—what does what they say mean?

The simple explanation is that YOU, right now, contribute to the contamination of the Seth Material—regardless of how GREAT your material is or may or may not be—because you are using the name SETH—and in time—you, Mark Frost, and others, along with Jane’s work—will all get blended together—and Seth’s work with Jane will be contaminated—with you playing a large part–with your self-righteous indignation and your refusal to actually examine the whole of the situation.

As for myself, I do not attempt to, support or advocate the silencing or shaming of anyone. BUT I DO attempt discussion on the topic…but of course you have blocked me and so you seem to run from it.

Story Continues: I would like to say that even if they are right and “people like Story Waters use Seth as a SYMBOL for their own inner communications” I am appalled by the energy in which they choose to communicate and I am writing this page in an attempt to extricate myself from the unpleasantness of being within their focus.

Barrie Responds: Holy shit. That’s me you’re quoting. Those are my words. So you block me, read my words, comment on them without even trying to discuss them with me—and actually understand what I say and why. Instead, you are content to project your own emotions into them. So I ask the person with his eyes and ears shut, what do you mean that you are “appalled by the energy in which they choose to communicate.” Energy appalls you? When you block something, it seems more powerful. Blocked water can knock over great walls, but if it is allowed its natural flow—the wall and the water stand tall.

But here is where I have strong disagreement with what Story says—and it also displays an ignorance on Story’s part. Let me explain:

Story Said: I am appalled by the energy in which they choose to communicate and I am writing this page in an attempt to extricate myself from the unpleasantness of being within their focus.

Barrie Comments: I just realized, it appears that YOU are the one trying to shame and silence people, those who challenge your use of the name “Seth” – those you claim are trying to silence and shame others. That is part of the projection at play here.

Speaking about myself now, WHY would you feel “appalled” because I want to help maintain the integrity of the Seth Material?

Even IF you disagree with me on that, you should at least understand my motives and NOT feel “appalled.” You feel appalled because you are taking it all very personally. As you have said above, you have your pride and sense of self-worth tied up in presenting your material; and you feel if someone is “attacking” the material, then they are attacking you—and THAT IS pretty appalling. You seem to display an ignorance concerning WHY people are upset with your use of the name “Seth.”

Why not examine your beliefs and ask WHY this is all happening to you instead of blocking it all out? Ask WHY you find it so unpleasant? Ask WHAT these folks are actually talking about? This path would certainly “extricate yourself from (any) unpleasantness.”

All that said, you have not once addressed anything online that I have seen concerning this issue. Have you? If so, I’d love to see it and discuss it.

Story Continues: Seth has given me solid reasons for his statement in Seth Speaks.

Barrie Responds: First of all, this is a circular argument. You are using your own say-so as proof. Seth has given you no reasons at all. The inner voice you CLAIM is Seth gave you these reasons. It’s like if I said, “People over six-feet tall and evil. I know so because I say so.”

I find it ironic that Story invokes the Bible in his attempt to put down those who question him, and yet doesn’t challenge his own thoughts—but accepts them as if THEY were the Bible.

You can’t sincerely say: “This is Seth. My proof is that I believe it is Seth because he said he was Seth…my unique Seth who I think of as The Universal Teacher.”

I see that as your unrecognized CONFESSION, if you will, that you are using the name of “Seth” as a symbol for what you see as The Universal Teacher that talks to you from within. It’s a perfect explanation.

Story Continues: However, as my whole purpose in writing this page is to exit the debate and say that I am making no claim because my work stands alone, I have no wish to fuel the debate by publicly sharing these ideas any longer.

Barrie Responds: Hold on a moment, Story. You’ve blocked people for a long time already. You exited this debate…but something is nagging at you inside…and that is what you wish to have exit you. What debate have you been engaged in, that you are now exiting?

It seems to me that this is just a fancy excuse to further avoid the issue. And you ARE MAKING A CLAIM. You are claiming to speak for your unique Seth—and claiming that brings all the legendary attention that the Seth mane has in this area or field—and it IS profiting from Jane’s work regardless of how you say it is your Seth, and not Jane’s Seth.

Also, where have you shared your ideas on this. Anyone—let me know for I’d LOVE TO SEE IT, read it, and discuss it—and see what comes from that. This sounds like some sort of, again, self-righteous declaration of indignation: “How dare some people have the appalling gall to challenge my use of the name Seth.”

You keep pointing to that one quote in Seth Speaks, which tells me you have no idea what Seth and Jane actually said on this…yet, of course, you are channeling Seth. You got SO EXCITED believing this inner voice was Seth, it blinds you to honestly try to uncover the truth of what is actually going on.

Story Continues: With the free examples of my work that I provide below there is no reason for anyone to purchase anything from me to see if I am channeling their idea of Seth. It may surprise some to know that I asked Seth repeatedly after he first appeared if I could use a different name because I know how hateful and rigid this world can be. Seth said ‘No way buster!’ and I continue to trust in his advice.

Barrie Responds: Again, it is not a question if someone believes you are channeling Seth or not; or their “idea of Seth.”. THE PROBLEM IS—that people believe it—and even if they don’t—you leave behind “Seth” quotes and “Seth” books—and in time—it will all blend together with Mark Frost’s work, and others, and Jane’s—and it would all just be the “Seth material” – a conglomerate of conflicting material not worth looking too deeply into because it is so contradictory. You keep focusing on YOU—that you don’t or can’t see the true issues involved here.

Story Continues: So, with my head held high, I will continue to walk forward into my unfolding experience of Self and share my heartfelt message in the knowing that I am not the cause of the pain and anger in the hearts of those that seek to silence or shame me.

Barrie Responds: Geez, what self-rightousness. You have both hands patting your back, how do you adjust your blinders? But you have inspired me to say: So, with my head held high, I will continue to walk forward into MY unfolding experience of Self and share my heartfelt messages.

But…so what? None of this is the issue…of who walks with his or her head held high. The issue is your use of the name “Seth” and your seeming refusal to examine or discuss it.

As I said earlier, my goal is to discuss your use of the name “Seth.” I have said nothing about the quality of your work. That is not the issue. If your work was totally shitty in my opinion, or super great—and even BETTER than Seth himself–the PROBLEM would still be the same—it would STILL be contaminating Seth’s work with Jane and ruining its integrity and authenticity.

You don’t seem to grasp this AT ALL. You seem so caught up in defending your self-worth and ego—and ironically possibly trying to shame and silence those who you claimwish to shame and silence you. This is very sad, indeed.

Story Continues: Oprah often asks people ‘What do you know for sure?’ I know for sure that Jane Roberts is proud of me and everything I am achieving in my life. She has no desire for her contribution to be static. She is my inspiration and the reason I am alive.

Barrie Responds: Don’t make me puke. This is too much. Again, on your own say-so, despite what Jane and Seth actually and repeatedly said, you “know for sure that Jane Roberts is proud of (you) and everything (you are) achieving in (your) life.” Er, and how do you KNOW that? Oh, you say so.

Then, you have the audacity to declare, “She has no desire for her contribution to be static.” That flies in the face of what she and Seth repeatedly said—and in the face of the obvious and everyday logic and reason WHY they said it—they wanted to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material—so it would NOT get mixed up with people like you would come along claiming that, too, speak for Seth.

She may be your “inspiration and the reason why (you) are alive.” Seth wanted to inspire people to find their OWN voice, and not to mistake his voice for theirs—and Jane supported that, too. But being thus inspired doesn’t make your claims any more TRUE. I may be inspired to practice basketball every day for 10 hours a day, but that doesn’t mean I am channeling Wilt Chamberlain or will soon be on the New York Knicks.

You don’t KNOW what Jane thinks or feels—obviously not back then when she wrote it outright—and certainly not now that she has passed on. All this is your very subjective opinions based on nothingyou’re your beliefs and thought—and perhaps some other subjective inner experiences.

You believe it, for sure. I believe that you believe it. But IF you claim to know it because your channeled Jane or Seth told you, then that exposes the shallowness of your examination of what is going on. Jane and Rob spent years challenging Seth and questioning themselves as to what is going on. They didn’t say “I know it is Seth because Seth says so.” Yet, here you are saying just that—and using JANE and YOUR Seth as your proof. Two personalities that actually engaged in years of proving that Seth was who he said he was.

Perhaps your fear and insecurity are so tied up in your use of the name “Seth,” that you refuse to examine any truth behind it. Rather, you say, “It is true because I say it is true.”

Story Concludes: Free Seth-Jane Gift Collection–five hours of free recordings to allow you to decide if
you resonate with Story’s message through Seth.

Barrie Concludes: There you go again, missing the point. It is NOT a question or issue if people resonate with your message. Rather, it is your use of the name “Seth” that is the issue.

And this closing “blurb” of yours exemplifies the problem: This is your “message through Seth.” Well, that phrase is the exact problem with using the name “Seth.” People read that and read, “Oh, his message thru Seth.” And Mark Frost has HIS “message thru Seth” ETC. It becomes real issue from “your version of Seth” or “your Seth” – to just become SETH.

And as I said, people will hear talk about what “Seth” said, you will quote what “Seth” said and one day people will see your books and Jane’s books and Frost’s books and others, and they may say, “Oh look there ANOTHER book by a lady named Jane Roberts…that’s also Seth, too.” And all this books and quotes will eventually BLEND together and the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material will get ruined—despite any of the claims and comments you just made here.

And your declaration to refuse discussion, just seals the ignorant deal. I say “ignorant” – because when discussion gets cut off—ALL remain ignorant and frozen in the place where the walls were put up and the silence began.

In summary, by using the name of Seth, after saying it is not Jane’s Seth, is even worse than thinking it is Jane’s Seth. You are capitalizing on someone else’s work by using the popular and legendary name of Seth. Imagine if I started writing posts using the name “Story Waters” – but I said it was my Story Waters – and then soon dropped that and just said, “Story Waters now says that he was a delusional phony. He wants to apologizd to everyone and asks them to throw away his books” – or whatever else I wanted. What if I started to give lectures as you, or channeling you, and said whatever I wanted? Do you think you, the real Story Waters would just say, “Oh, that’s OK…we are all One Consciousness?” I doubt it. And even if you did, I would disagree with you on that. I would be stealing YOUR name, even if I say it isn’t your name.

As promised, here are some brief Seth excerpts on how and why he would not communicate thru anyone else other than Jane (and that he needed Rob as well):

Here are ten brief examples of Seth and Jane explaining clearly that Seth would never communicate thru anyone else—not via speaking, automatic writing, and so forth. I’ve added the CAPS for emphasis only:

Seth (Session 15): "Joseph, your part in these sessions is extremely important. Without your participation they could not have begun, nor could they continue. Because of our past alliances the three of us are closely bound together. However, I need the two of you in order to come through at all.

Jane (from Dreams, Evolution, & Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL. AND IT IS INDEED THAT CONTRACT BETWEEN HIM AND ME THAT ALWAYS ASSURES YOU OF THE AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK…”

Jane (Seth Material; Ch.9): “Several people have told me that Seth communicated with them through automatic writing, but Seth denies any such contacts, saying that his communications will be limited to his work with me, in order that the INTEGRITY of the Seth Material be preserved.”

Jane (Ch.9, Seth Material): “Mrs. Brian had a terrific headache while reading the article (about Seth); suddenly she thought she felt Seth’s presence. An inner voice, pre¬sumably Seth’s, told her that she had been feeling sorry for herself that she must stop brooding over her health at once, get up, and go out for a walk. If so, she would improve at once…

“We asked Seth about the incident. In this case, he said, Mrs. Brian had used him as a symbol of her inner self, or supraconsciousness, to deliver help and healing influences as well as advice. The experience helped the woman to use her own abilities, and the idea of Seth enabled her to activate her own healing forces.”

Seth (Session 454): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT, simply because there must never be any doubt of the origin of the Seth material.”

Seth (Session 463): It is quite natural that others…who are experimenting should go through a stage in which it seems to them they are receiving information from me. Suggestion operates, and any trance deeper than ordinary for them can be interpreted in these terms. He (Ruburt) should understand this, and explain it simply to his students.”

Seth (Session 463): "Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE.

Seth (Session 510): "While MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 876, from God of Jane): "A woman wrote that she was involved with. . . correspondences in which I was communicating with her, and she was certain that this would prove beyond a doubt my own independent nature, since I [would have given] messages to another medium besides Ruburt. The woman was quite convinced of that.

"Other people have written that I have given them such messages. Another woman dreamed of me, and had an experience in which a child was definitely healed. Now, I did not communicate with those women—but their belief in me helped each of them use certain abilities. One woman has done some writing—not very good—but still, those abilities came to the fore. The other woman was able to use her own healing abilities.

----END PART TWO OF TWO----


#23

Wow, I have not visited this topic for some months, and it’s going all over the show, with a lot of different strands.
As I write a blog, I feel I want to publicly say that while I discuss SETH topics, my opinion are my own, and I have never and will never claim to “speak for seth” or anything like that, if anyone does happen to read my articles.
The body of Seth’s work in the books gives us an idea of his personality, but that is quite different than claiming that Seth is speaking through whoever.
I think at the very least, people should respect the Seth books are copyrighted material. But “speakers” seem to skirt around that fact very conveniently.


#24

Dear Doreen and all,

What Ron says about communicating with Seth or his gestalt or however else he puts it—is just made up by Ron. At best, it is his unsubstantiated opinions which totally contradict what Seth actually said. At worst, it is conscious lying and manipulating.

In both cases, it displays great misunderstandings of and a disregard for what Seth said—and it serves to contaminate the integrity of the Seth material. As more and more people start quoting the “Seth” they hear from, eventually what Seth actually said would be muddied and watered down—as already is happening—and which is exactly what Seth tried to avoid by saying that he would never communicate thru anyone else—including in the dream state.

As Jane and Seth said (CAPS added for emphasis):

Jane (from Dreams, Evolution, & Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL. AND IT IS INDEED THAT CONTRACT BETWEEN HIM AND ME THAT ALWAYS ASSURES YOU OF THE AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK…”

Seth (Session 454): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT, simply because there must never be any doubt of the origin of the Seth material.”

Seth (Session 463): "Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE.

Seth (Session 510): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Barrie Comments: Let me go thru just a bit of what Ron has said:

Ron Writes: “For the past 2 years I have had frequent dream contact with a faculty member, a teacher, from Seth’s greater pyramid energy gestalt, the gestalt that was responsible for Jane’s Seth and Seth Two.”

Barrie Responds: I have to say, this is utter bullshit. What I mean is that anybody can claim anything. For example, I can say that for the past two years I’ve been in dream contact with the Entity that taught Jesus and he told me… It is just made up fantasy. Anyone can claim anything.

Jane spent YEARS proving to herself that her Seth experience was real. Nowadays, people like Ron spend less than one second on that. EACH PERSON who now claims they are in contact with Seth—who uses that name—EACH PERSON—has their own personal explanation as to why it is true for them. Some say that anyone can do it.

Think for a moment. Does anyone who cares about Seth realize what this would mean? It would mean that not only was Seth wrong or mistaken about HIMSELF—when he said he would never communicate thru anyone else—but that the truth is and was that he would actually communicate thru many people—perhaps everyone or anyone who wanted. This is pure fantasy and would mean that Seth was lying, manipulating or totally self-ignorant—and that he really does not care about the integrity and/or authenticity of his own work.

A moment on Seth Two: Seth Two is barely understandable to SETH himself; and lives an existence that humans, and practically Seth himself—cannot even IMAGINE—and yet, old Ron here—is in contact with what was RESPONSIBLE for Seth Two??? Come on, folks. Ron is making this stuff up. I’m not sure if he believes it or not, but it is so absurd to make these claims.

Ron talks about “gestalts.” All he says is just made up by him. It’s nonsense. He believes it, most likely. But that doesn’t make it any more true. You know what I say about gestalts—I say they are the “form” or method that holds our incarnations, higher selves, entities intact as one “unit,” so to speak, so that we can communicate and stay in touch with ourselves thru eternity. Within our own gestalts we travel and have our inner communications. That’s how I see them. And at least my version doesn’t create just another theory which contradicts and contaminates the Seth material about how “I” communicate with “something” that is a part of Seth.

What makes the MOST TOTAL SENSE—is what Seth said: That Seth readers will use the name Seth as a SYMBOL for their own inner communications.

Seth (Session 463): It is quite natural that others…who are experimenting should go through a stage in which it seems to them they are receiving information from me. Suggestion operates, and any trance deeper than ordinary for them can be interpreted in these terms.

Barrie Comments: Think about this, too: Every single person who contacted Jane in order to say that Seth was in touch with them or he was communicating thru them—EACH ONE firmly believed it and had their OWN detailed explanation as to why it was true. And what did Seth say to ALL of them: Seth said NONE of them were true. And Rob asked: Where were all these these “Seth” communications BEFORE Jane made the name popular. The answer: Nowhere. It was only after Jane put the name Seth into the public mind, did these people start to claim that they, too, were communicating with him.

Remember, too, there is no more subjective realm than our dream state. In the dream state we have SYMBOLIC experiences all the time—names, objects and people are used as SYMBOLS to communicate to ourselves our fears, joys, worries, etc etc. Was that my mom in my dream or was I using mom as a symbol? We experience probable realities, fantasy realities, experiences to work out common, everyday experiences we are having, past life communications, etc etc. And ALL THESE are mixed and blended together and VERY SUBJECTIVE experiences. For Ron to declare, as fact, that he has constant contact with a teacher from Seth’s gestalt who was behind the existence of Seth2—is really absurd and certainly not a fact.

What I BELIEVE is that Ron is having his own inner communications with HIMSELF or his SELF or his WHATEVER—and is using Seth’s name as a symbol for these communications because he doesn’t yet trust HIMSELF enough to be responsible for them. Seth has actually said this of others:

Seth (Deleted Session, 7-2-77): “Many of the people who read my books are also disillusioned with the world’s beliefs. They have been brought up to believe in authority, yet they realize that the authorities know far less than they originally supposed. They are afraid, however, of going out on their own, so to speak, and many are involved in lives that have been built upon past beliefs.

"They do not trust themselves. They do not have the stamina, or the resoluteness, however, yet, to face a reality in which they are the creators of their circumstances. They no longer trust religion or science in organizational terms. If they read Ruburt’s books, they must accept the fact that Ruburt, as a woman, without the world’s credentials, will dare to follow the dictates of the inner self, and this makes the entire affair more frightening to them, to a degree.

"The two of you (Jane & Rob) are after all people, they think, and since they distrust themselves they cannot really understand how the two of you trust yourselves as much as you do. They use MY position as a substitute for the authority they are trying to give up. They think “IF I HAD A SETH, I too would progress”, and so forth…

Barrie Comments: I’ll end here.

Be well & happy,
Barrie


#25

Are you talking about the Ron who posted earlier in this thread, or some other Ron? And if so, are you two not on speaking terms? It seems odd to talk about someone as if they were not part of the conversation, or not present? I find it confusing to read. Is there some bad blood there? And if so, is there really a need to rehash it here and now on this page Barrie?