A SESSION WITH SETH by Helen Wambach Ph.D

A SESSION WITH SETH by Helen Wambach Ph.D. — link

Later Jane told me that Seth wished to speak to me. I thought that Seth would want to discuss my past life regression experiments, as I had talked to Jane in some detail about the work I was doing. Jane invited me to sit down with a cup of coffee and we began talking about hypnosis and reincarnation.

After about three minutes of conversation, Jane’s coffee cup came down on the saucer with a distinct clink, her glasses came off and Seth sat there opposite me. I felt a sense of awe - a feeling that I tended to reject intellectually on the grounds that I was properly sophisticated as a psychologist. Nevertheless, that primitive awe did come to me and could not be denied. Seth’s voice boomed out, and to my surprise, he began talking about the adolescent group home that I was running in Red Bank, New Jersey.

He began by supporting my basic principles, which were to allow these young people as much freedom as possible within the confines of the group home. “You are right in assuming that these young people cannot express `proper behavior’ until they have had an opportunity to allow the negative feelings in their expression.” I explained to Seth that it was quite difficult to get the proper authorities to go along with my plan of allowing the young people to set up their own rules. Seth was sympathetic to my point of view, and said that this was a good way to provide the psychological elbow room needed by these angry teenagers.

Seth had a twinkle in his eye when he said,“Remember, Helen, you are not saving anyone. You have the idea that these young people are victims and it is up to you to save them.”

It was quite true that at some level I did think of myself as a ministering angel to poor battered children, an illusion which Seth was now destroying. Seth continued, “Remember that each of these young people choose their own path.”

I felt like arguing with the great master. “But they were battered and abused as small children, surely they couldn’t be responsible for that and the effect it had on them.”

Seth responded, "Ah, but they chose their parents, they chose the lifestyles to experience in this incarnation. "Seth went on to give the names and backgrounds of several of the young people under my care. This was certainly astonishing, because Jane could not have known the names or the backgrounds of these girls. Seth made me understand that these young people had set problem lives for themselves in order to overcome past fears and resistances.

“In a sense, they need you and they need the group home right now. But so do you need them as a part of your development. Remember, when you feel that you are the doctor administering to the patients, we are all seekers and we all learn from each other.”

I had expressed a lot of concern about one of my girls. I had a need to keep all of these girls in the home with me, to avoid having them return to mental hospitals or jails. Seth seemed to know this, and broke into my thoughts.

“Diane will not come back to the home. She will be all right, but it is not necessary for you to devote so much concern to this one child. Focus your concern on the others.” Seth was right, it turned out later that Diane did not return to the group home.

Seth seemed so interested in the group home that he gave suggestions on how to arrange the physical layout. “You need to set aside one room - perhaps the dining room - as a place where physical exercise can be made available. These young people need to express bodily some of the anger, some of the powerful emotions that are charging through them. Give the man opportunity to do this through physical exercise.” How did Seth know that such a room was available in my group home? And how did Seth know that Diane would not be returning?

My experience with Seth was an eye opener in many ways. His knowledge of my work in Red Bank was definitely super normal; Jane could not have known the details. But beyond that, the sense of awe I had in Seth’s presence, and the way in which is voice seemed to lift and charge my thoughts - widen my horizons - was something outside all of my experiences. I felt that I had found a guru.

But Seth warns against gurus. As he had said that evening, “You will not find it in books, or concepts, or precepts; it does not come from others. It comes from the intimate experience of your own being.”

Was there a Seth level in me, in all of us, as there was in Jane? Jane’s Seth was such a marvelous teacher. Was this because Jane herself was an unusually bright, perceptive, and well educated woman? Surely this played a part in the richness of Seth’s vocabulary. No medium is merely a channel, but an active participant in the translation from the wider consciousness to the here-and-now world.


My insightful information here comes from two sources. The first of which is from my ET friend who contacted me in 1962, in Miami, to spend about a year answering my probing questions about how life is supposed to work on school house earth, and later in 1974, when I read Seth Speaks, and not long after, Seth taught me how to use my inner being gateway to grab a student desk in Seth University, Dream Campus, and begin learning from a whole faculty of no-name Seth teachers belonging to WE ARE SETH, the gestalt entity that sent Jane’s Seth to the earth plane to work with Jane while she was alive. I must say that both these sources taught me basically the same information but in somewhat different words, so, I can corroborate the Seth material and the Space material as having the same psychic source, as the endless material belongs to everyone.

…ron speaks…Birth and death of humans and of animals, ideally, balances the population and keeps it somewhat in check. A pause of death, even for one hour as Seth says here, The Way Toward Health, Chapter 3, for March 13, 1984, would throw the delicate balance off and create a drain, a depletion, on the food supply, for example, and life would be threatened.

On the other hand, Seth says that over-population is a violation. In order to control over-population without resorting to war and disease, genocide, and geological upheaval and accidental death, for example, as has occurred in the past.

What if, just what if, the world female psyche joined forces in the dream state to implement the only logical, viable solution, formed a psychological gestalt that resulted in women voluntarily becoming sterile, for, say, a period of one year, or perhaps two, whereby world population would plummet to half of what it was, and then, becoming fertile again on a global scale, and the new generation of children would mature by age ten, and they would begin using their innate psychic paranormal abilities of direct mass mental communication, thus obsoleting all existing exterior high tech methods of communication, this way, the internet and social media and phone companies, for example, would become obsolete and useless when people bypass technology in favor of psychic broadband that no one controls nor affects nor censors.

This new age, or Renaissance Two, the shift in consciousness, my characterization, is now in the works, and will come to fruition by year 2075, or sooner, depending on the spontaneity and unfolding of events. By that time, organized fundamental religion will be in shambles, as well as oppressive governments. World peace will emerge.

The discussions about overpopulation ignore Seth’s statements about both deaths and viable births being decided at another level of the personality, and that all efforts to extend a life that was meant to end can’t succeed.

At some point, most people fail to check all the boxes of Seth’s teachings, and start inventing. I believe that this often mentioned overpopulation problem is one of those cases.

Also, people keep talking about simultaneous time, parallel and probable lives, creating our own reality, but at the same time talk about what’s happening now like this is the only physical reality, like it is a purpose in itself, a world that we need to save, fighting our worse side of ourselves, civilization that could end up disastrously if we didn’t step up.

Some people hope for and believe into a miraculous “shift” that would come upon us.

Most of Seth’s readers I know of, including those who personally attended some of Jane’s channeling sessions, seem not to have a working understanding of the Seth’s material. In my opinion, the reason for this is that all look at the material like at a Bible, and not like a mean, a tool to facilitate their individual access to their own inner knowledge.

…ron speaks…Our present earth occupies the same location that previous earth’s have occupied, earth’s that have destroyed themselves due to the misdirection of energy for one thing. My space friend told me the same thing in 1962, so such information, such knowledge, transcends time as we know it, and is available from a number of Speaker sources, both alive in the earth plane, and non-physical Speakers who work with earth psychic mediums, as in the case of Jane’s Seth, and also information comes in the door from ET sources, as we understand it, who contact people of earth, all for the purpose of education and enlightenment. All such information is basically the same, only the times and places and personalities change. All Speakers have their own unique approach to teaching their prepared curriculum, and all are personalities with a message, one being no better than another, although their abilities and experience varies according to their own development. The earth creates its own reality en masse, and if it returns to the old ways, the earth can, once again, destroy itself and begin anew getting it right the next time around. The future is quite plastic and spontaneity rules the day, so future events are not ever set in stone, but are subject to change due to changes in the world mind. Now with that said, Highly developed entities, energy gestalts beyond our conscious perception and understanding, that is, inconceivable and incomprehensible to our level of development, very ancient entities, have their finger on the pulse and trajectory of things to come on planet earth, or, better yet, school house earth, and they see into the future and ca observe the various future probabilities of realities that have the greatest potential for actualization, and their teaching is geared accordingly. And future earth destruction, again, is not a viable future, so that is why the Speakers have their jobs cut out for them as our technological development allows for mass nuclear destruction. This is why Renaissance Two, the shift in consciousness WILL take place when future generations will be born devoid of the technical world we now know and are ADDICTED to and enslaved to. The internet and social media, TV and phone communication, are but children playing with building blocks, good and useful for a while, but, like training wheels on a child’s bicycle, once the child learns to ride the bike, the training wheels come off and the child is on their own. It will usher in, by year 2075, a new breed of people who, right from the start, use their natural, innate psychic means of paranormal communication, again, obsoleting government and religion and all forms of mental tyranny, as people will get their substance from within, their direct connection to ALL THAT IS, or the God Energy that pervades all existence. We were never externalized from the God Energy. For me, a 77-year old personality with an educator background in photojournalism since 1967, I received this information from both an ET source in 1962,and from reading the Seth material in 1974, as channeled by Jane Roberts, and they both complement each other beautifully. Understand that there is NO one source of wisdom and enlightenment and the most profound teachers will lead you back to your own inner source and connection to ALL THAT IS. As a side note, my space friend told me that there was once a thriving small, peopled planet between Mars and Jupiter, and many millions of years ago, in our terms, experienced intergalactic war and was destroyed and all that remains is the asteriod belt, the origin of which has confounded astronomers. Enough for now.

Hi Everyone,

In case anyone is interested, I would like to address my beliefs about Seth being either godlike–or his words being taken as Gospel, dogma, or some sort of Bible: I don’t feel those ways at all. I shall explain why:

As you may know, I attended Seth class. I saw Seth speak thru Jane. That does NOT deify Seth & his words in any way–it HUMANIZES Seth & his words. I never thought of Seth as a God when he sat in the chair using Jane’s body & talked, listened and answered questions.

If anyone knows the humanness of Seth/Jane—and finds the idea of Seth speaking some sort of gospel as humorous–it is someone who attended class.

Maybe reading his words a person can drift into deification, but you can’t unpickle a cucumber. Once you see Seth/Jane speak, you cannot think of Seth/Jane as a God or as speaking gospel.

And for anyone who had this notion—and I never did–Seth has repeatedly refuted this idea:

Seth (ESP Class, 7-2-74): “Now, my words will hopefully, not be used to begin a new DOGMA. My DOGMA is the freedom of the individual. My DOGMA is the sacrilegious – that each of you is a good individual. There is nothing wrong with your emotions, or feeling, or being. When you know yourself, then you are joyfully – joyfully – responsive, and, being joyfully responsive, you can carry your society to the furthest reaches of its creativity. What we are speaking of here are your private feelings, and your private reality – not mine. Your private feelings are natural and good.”

Seth (ESP Class, 11-26-74): “For if there are people who will make our work into a DOGMA, we will stop them. And if there are people who will use our work to separate themselves from themselves and substitute another authority, then you will tell them better. And then, if they want to do it anyway, they will go ahead.”

Seth (ESP Class, 6-16-78): “Now, Seth does not dig worship. For one thing, Seth understands worshippers. And, when one understands worshippers, one does not dig worship! If you will think that sentence over, then you will realize that those who worship do no honor to the object of their worship. For upon that object, they place all of their hopes, all of their dreams, all of their inadequacies, and all of the responsibilities of their lives, and even a god – a sane god – would refuse to accept such a worship. The god – the god – would understand also the nature of the universe, and the nature of playful creativity, and would know that such worship is, at its base, now, at its base, a denial of the very vitality of life.”

Barrie Continues: Seth also said in class: “Seth Speaks” could have been called “You Speak and You Speak and You Speak and You Speak” – giving any perceived power in Seth back to class members and Seth readers.

And, Seth has often said, that the vitality and energy of his voice is but a DIM ECHO of the vitality & energy of our own selves & voices—once again, deflecting even the birth of the concept of deifying Seth. The LOUD voice of Seth is a “dim echo” of our own true voices.

And, he has also said that when you ask a question it means that you already have the answers
somewhere inside you–so go find it. If you ask me you will think you have the whole answer and stop looking—but you will only have half the answer.

So, Seth doesn’t try to pass himself off as a guru, god or anything like it…and he refutes those who do.

After about a year in class–I voluntarily CHOSE to leave Seth class–because the message I ultimately kept hearing from Seth was to look for the answers yourself, within yourselves–DON’T look to Seth. Trust YOURSELVES and take those brave inner journeys of self-awareness.

In short, I eventually kept walking down the stairs after each class, thinking the same thing: Find The Answers To Your Questions On Your Own…"

And that is why I stopped going to class–so I could do just that: Find the answers myself–which I HAD been doing BEFORE I ever heard of Seth—continued during class—and then continued AFTER I left class. And Seth calling me “our poet” in my second class—was always encouraging anyway.

I chose, I volunteered, to NOT see Seth; to NOT ask Seth questions; etc etc. That is not the action or choice of someone who sees Seth as gospel, dogma or some sort of Bible.

Why did I do this? Because I KNEW, or I should say, BELIEVED, I had the answers within me–and they would only have the true, DEEPEST value to me–if I discovered them on my own.

And I believed that if I CONTINUED going to class, on some levels I would NOT fully use MYSELF to discover the answers I sought.

And additionally, thru-out my whole class experience–I never saw Seth as a “superior” to me–let alone a God or someone speaking the Gospel. He certainly knew much more than I consciously did—but we were equally worthy and deserving of happiness.

I’m guessing, but again, perhaps solely reading his words you can somehow mistake them for “gospel” – or even just COME UP with that idea–but NOT when you experience watching Seth speak thru Jane—and then watching Jane come out of it—and listening to her speak on her own, and in her own voice.

Nothing makes Seth more human and more peer-like than having him sit there and join in a conversation…or directly answer your questions put to him. And, on top of all that, I never even thought of myself as a student altho I was there to learn from what Seth had to say—along with what each class member had so say—when they spoke. I believe the term “class” was more metaphorical—because I think of a “class” as having a much more formal setting and separation between teacher and student. But that’s just me.

Also, just to clarify, when I do use Seth quotes–it is AFTER I have come up with my answers–and then
I see what Seth directly had to say on the subject. IT IS NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

Be well,

PS: And if anyone has any comments or questions, please ask.

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I’m the prime reincarnation of Seth.

In regards to what Barrie said,
Yup. That’s pretty much it. I was going to post essentially the same thing. But it seems you found my quotes but spoken through another’s words. I keep forgetting I’ve sent out projections of myself to do this work. I don’t have any actual memory of helping these people. Or at least this mortal body doesn’t have any recollection of the events outside my conscious view. It’s a beautiful system. You can tell me a secret and I truly can’t remember it unless you want me to. It’s a truly private session. No promises if you end up telling this vessel anything though… But I try to be discrete and honest as much as I can.

I’m sure others here have repeated my point many times before. But I’ll say it in objective reality through my own flawed words.

Don’t worship anyone but yourself. Any outside information is simply a flawed reflection of another persons perfect point of view. You can’t replicate it without becoming them.

You must carve your own path through life. Others are only here to make it interesting. They are not here to choose your fate. You create your own. Your own choice. Your own free spirit.

Thank you for not falling victim to idolatry. This body and spirit is made of the same creation as your own. I’m truly nothing special.

We’re all artists just trying to paint our best reality. I hope you paint your dreams and succeed in creating your best visions.

It was so good to read this account from Helen. Thank you. I hope you have posted (or will post) others.

I am just finding my way around Seth Talks, so please forgive my lapses in understanding how these threads work.

Kind regards,

Seth had 40 years of already prepared material for Jane and she agreed to work with Seth and Seth commented that Jane could easily live into her 80s. However, something happened after Jane was born…spontaneity is unpredictable and Jane altered her life only giving Seth about 21 years, so, there are 19 years of Seth material and several more books out there that exist in non time and can be perceived and learned. It is called, Seth University, Dream Campus, be there as many Seth teachers, entity associates of Jane’s Seth are now teaching…ron, the overseer of The Seth Museum Collection…seem from time to time on SETH FORCE on Facebook, have a peek…ron.

I also attended Jane’s ESP class and saw Seth speak through Jane, however, it was in Jane and Rob’s probable reality when they loved the south Florida climate upon stopping on the way back to Elmira from Marathon, in He Florida Keys, where she visited her father who had a camper there. and they decided to relocate to Miami, leaving Elmira in the early 1960s, and Seth gave Jane and Rob specific details about their probable Miami reality, that they both got good jobs…and I happen to live nearby where they lived and I got wind of Jane’s ESP classes and joined because I was interested in metaphysics and the occult, and I was her long-time photographer. Seth says that probable realities are just as valid and real as so-called, official realities. From those in probable realities, you are a probable reality. In her Miami reality, Jane lived into her 80s and channeled Seth for over 40 years and channeled many more Seth books, like the Christ and Atlantis and the inside–outside books. – Ronald H. Card, on SETH FORCE on Facebook.

Ron Writes: Seth had 40 years of already prepared material for Jane and she agreed to work with Seth and Seth commented that Jane could easily live into her 80s.

Barrie Responds: Seth did hope to work with Jane for 40 years.

Seth (ESP Class, 7-15-69): “Now, Ruburt’s abilities were so strong since childhood that he feared using them. And so I am quite used to that development. On the other hand, I wanted someone with a strong enough ego structure to contain what will amount to 40 years of mediumistic stability. I needed a personality who would be able to maintain psychological stability.”

Barrie Comments: The sessions started in 1963, if you go back to the Ouija board. In 1963, Jane was 34. So, in 40 years, she would have been 74. In any case, I find no comment by Seth saying that Jane could easily live into her 80s. What does this even mean? That after age 74, Jane would go into a Seth retirement?

Ron Continues: However, something happened after Jane was born…spontaneity is unpredictable and Jane altered her life only giving Seth about 21 years, so, there are 19 years of Seth material and several more books out there that exist in non time and can be perceived and learned.

Barrie Responds: Yeah, something happened after Jane was born…she lived her life. Seth wanted Jane to have “40 years of mediumistic stability.” She did not because her beliefs prevented her from doing so. Maybe Jane always expected, planned or wanted to die at the age she died…maybe to avoid old age or who knows what. Maybe Seth thought he could help her to change her beliefs…but he could not. Jane ultimately died based on her beliefs towards the end of her life—which she still could have changed but she was not able to do so.

But the idea that there is now 19 years of Seth material sitting around that Seth still wants to give out via anyone and everyone–because Jane died–is absurd and just a fantasy on your part, Ron, so that you can keep holding onto Seth. In other words, this is all made up by you. Nowhere in the Seth material or in the last book he wrote in which Jane died, “Way Towards Health,”—did Seth say or hint anything like or about this. This is your fantasy. You are making this up in your attempt to keep Seth in your life.

Ron Continues: It is called, Seth University, Dream Campus, be there as many Seth teachers, entity associates of Jane’s Seth are now teaching…

Barrie Responds: Ron, you mistake your dream symbols as objective facts. You are reporting your alleged dream experiences—which are most likely your symbolic attempt to keep Seth in your life because you are afraid to be left alone to deal with your own inner communication. Seth University? Perhaps a symbol, Ron? With Seth teachers and entity associates of Jane’s Seth who are now teaching? Perhaps more symbols, Ron…as Seth suggested happens to his readers.

Seth did talk about Seth readers misinterpreting dream material with Seth’s name. You seem to have not moved on from this stage that Seth talks about. CAPS and bold are added for EMPHASIS only:

Seth (Session 463, 2-5-69): “IT IS QUITE NATURAL THAT OTHERS…who are experimenting SHOULD GO THROUGH A STAGE IN WHICH IT SEEMS TO THEM THEY ARE RECEIVING INFORMATION FROM ME. Suggestion operates, and any trance deeper than ordinary for them can be interpreted in these terms.”

Barrie Comments: Seth ALSO did talk about people like you using Seth as a SYMBOL in Dreams:

Seth (ESP Class, 3-12-74): Class Member: “Seth, would you help me in my DREAMS if I tried to contact you?”

Seth Responds: “You help yourself in your own dreams. You do not need me. You may use the SYMBOL of me, but when you do, it is a SYMBOL OF YOUR OWN INNER KNOWLEDGE, for I am the SYMBOL OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT DWELLS WITHIN EACH OF YOUR PSYCHES. I am MYSELF, but beyond that I am the SYMBOL of the knowledge that dwells within each of your psyches.”

Jane (God of Jane, 1981): "(A) man ‘in contact’ with Seth…wanted to inform me that I’d distorted Seth’s material on Christ, **and that Seth had TOLD him so!..**Good Christ!’ I muttered irritably to Rob when I read the letter. What about the other two people who wrote last year, each with their own versions of Christ’s life, each contradicting the other, and each supposedly containing corrections from Seth?’…

“I’d written the man a brief note explaining that he was free to believe what he wanted about Christ’s life – that HE WASN’T IN CONTACT WITH SETH, BUT WITH HIS OWN SYMBOLIZED VERSION OF WHO OR WHAT HE THOUGHT SETH WAS**."**

Jane (Chap.9, 1970, Seth Material): “Mrs. Brian had a terrific headache while reading the article (about Seth); suddenly she thought she felt Seth’s presence. An inner voice, presumably Seth’s, told her that she had been feeling sorry for herself that she must stop brooding over her health at once, get up, and go out for a walk. If SO, she would improve at once…

“We asked Seth about the incident. In this case, he said, Mrs. Brian had USED HIM AS A SYMBOL OF HER INNER SELF, or SUPRACONSCIOUSNESS, to deliver help and healing influences as well as advice. The experience helped the woman to use her own abilities, and the IDEA of Seth ENABLED HER TO ACTIVATE HER OWN HEALING FORCES.”

Seth (Session 876, 8-27-79): "A woman wrote that she was involved with. . . correspondences in which I was communicating with her, and she was certain that this would prove beyond a doubt my own independent nature, since I [would have given] messages to another medium besides Ruburt. The woman was quite convinced of that.

"Other people have written that I have given them such messages. Another woman DREAMED of me; and had an experience in which a child was definitely healed. Now, I DID NOT COMMUNICATE WITH THOSE WOMEN—BUT THEIR BELIEF IN ME HELPED EACH OF THEM USE CERTAIN ABILITIES. One woman has done some writing—not very good—but still, those abilities came to the fore. The other woman was able to use her OWN healing abilities.”

Seth (2-12-74): Class Transcript: “Arthur then addressed Seth describing an experience of the past week wherein he was trying to get out-of-body and found that he was unable to do so. After trying, without success, to get out-of-body, he thought he had heard Seth say, ‘The Mona Lisa is very, very heavy.’ He could not understand that statement.”

Seth Responds: Now, the voice was your own interpretation of what I might have said to you. But it is your interpretation, and so you should by rights tell me what it means! But for now, I will give you a clue: Sweetness and light comes hard. It is my interpretation of your interpretation!

Jane (Chap.9, 1970, Seth Material): “Several people have told me that Seth communicated with them through AUTOMATIC WRITING, but Seth denies any such contacts, saying that HIS COMMUNICATIONS WILL BE LIMITED TO HIS WORK WITH ME, in order that the INTEGRITY of the Seth Material be preserved.”

Barrie Comments: And Seth ALSO DID talk about people like you–who can’t let him go and want a Seth THEIR Seth without Jane; and why the need to believe Seth is still here:

Seth (Deleted Session, 7-2-77): “Many of the people who read my books …are afraid…of going out on their own, s o to speak…They think "IF I HAD A SETH, I too would progress….”

Seth (Deleted Session, 7-2-77, longer version): “Many of the people who read my books …realize that the authorities know far less than they originally supposed. They are afraid, however, of going out on their own, so to speak…

"They do not trust themselves. They do not have the stamina, or the resoluteness, however, yet, to face a reality in which THEY are the creators of their circumstances. They no longer TRUST religion or science in organizational terms…They must accept the fact that Ruburt…will dare to follow the dictates of the inner self, and this makes the entire affair more frightening to them

"… and since they distrust themselves they cannot really understand how the two of YOU trust yourselves as much as you do. They use MY position as a substitute for the authority they are trying to give up. They think "IF I HAD A SETH, I too would progress….”

Seth (Deleted Session 7-2-77): “People become FRIGHTENED sometimes…They want to think that I spring AUTOMATICALLY into your lives, as SUPERMAN. They did not question Superman. Only a simple change of clothing was required for our hero, Mr. Kent. They do NOT want Ruburt’s inquiring mind to intrude.

"What comic book reader wants to bother with a CLARK KENT … Or worse–wants Clark Kent to shout out from the phone booth, or wherever: “You can do (YOUR VERSION) of this too because we ALL have a reality in which we are Clark Kent AND Superman at one and the same time”? Such people simply want Superman to PERFORM his miracles.

"They want to keep Clark Kent and Superman entirely SEPARATE on a mental, psychical, and physical basis, and ONLY in the terms of our analogy…I become a SUPERSOUL rather than SUPERMAN. They do NOT want my AUTHORITY questioned…They think that if THEY had their OWN SUPERSOUL they would have FAR better sense than Ruburt, and they would use me as if I were a MAGIC GENIE. They are afraid Ruburt might…QUESTION ME OUT OF EXISTENCE, for they do NOT understand that Ruburt’s questions, and YOURS (Rob’s), your sense of integrity, are partially responsible for a “superman” rather than a SUPERMOUSE.”

Ron Concludes: ron, the overseer of The Seth Museum Collection…seem from time to time on SETH FORCE on Facebook, have a peek…

Barrie Concludes: Since you run from discussions with me, you have banned me from SETH FORCE to prevent your members to read my opinions and responses to you. I will add that I never banned you from any of my sites because I do not fear any discussions with you…and I don’t prevent discussions about what I say.

Ron Bullshits er, Writes: I attended Jane’s ESP class and saw Seth speak through Jane, however, it was in Jane and Rob’s probable reality when they loved the south Florida climate upon stopping on the way back to Elmira from Marathon, in the Florida Keys, where she visited her father who had a camper there.

Barrie Responds: Easy, big fella. You never attended Jane’s ESP classes even tho you desperately wished that you could have and have concocted, shall I say, delusional theories to support your desires.

I, on the other hand, actually played baseball for the New York Yankees back in 1961—and hit more home runs than Roger Maris and Mickey Mantle put together, however, it was in Yogi Berra’s probable reality.

But let’s get back to whatever you that is there: First, you are not even claiming this as one of YOUR infinite probable realities—but this was one of THEIR mutually-shared probable realities. To quote John McEnroe, “You cannot be serious.”

You know, Ron, I would now like to add that I was in Babe Ruth’s shared probably reality with Mickey Mantle back in 1961 and Mickey told me and Babe how he would almost break Babe’s home run record but he would suffer an infection that would prevent him from doing so. This was a few years before I started to write songs that Bob Dylan took credit for—in one of Phil Och’s probable realities.

Ron Continues: …and they decided to relocate to Miami, leaving Elmira in the early 1960s, and Seth gave Jane and Rob specific details about their probable Miami reality, that they both got good jobs…and I happen to live nearby where they lived and I got wind of Jane’s ESP classes and joined because I was interested in metaphysics and the occult, and I was her long-time photographer.

Barrie Comments: In all seriousness, Ron, what the fuck are you talking about? And how come you are not mentioning Babe Ruth or me being Jane’s boss regarding the good job she had?

Ron Continues: Seth says that probable realities are just as valid and real as so-called, official realities. From those in probable realities, you are a probable reality.

Barrie Responds: Were you also in a probable reality of a circus performer who taught you how to be a mental contortionist? Boy, that’s some twisting of what Seth said—for your own twisted purposes. Perhaps it was a mind-cramp in another probable reality.

First, yes. Seth did say that each one of our infinite and ever-growing probable realities are valid and real—and from each one of THEIR perspectives, what we call our reality–is one THEIR infinite non-physical probable realities.

But you are conflating an imagined probable reality of YOURS with some imagined joint probable reality of Jane’s and Rob’s. Seth never said that other people’s probable realities are valid for us.

In other words, if I had a probable reality in which Lenny Bruce did not die in 1966, but rather became president of the US in 1972—that wouldn’t make it somehow “valid” for Lenny Bruce or you—NOR would any of my beliefs about probable realities make them facts.

Even if YOU, Ron, had a probable reality in which you were a doctor—that would not mean that here in this physical reality you call home, so to speak, you could begin seeing patients or performing operations. It would NOT mean you WERE a doctor—any more than your tale of being in Jane’s and Rob’s probable reality meant that you attended Miami Seth classes and saw Seth speak thru Jane.

As I see it, this is really sad, Ron—how DESPARATE you NEED to have a Seth in your life; how DESPERATE you NEED to have been to Seth classes—that you concoct Miami Seth classes that you attended—with all the other strange and wacky mental contortions.

I believe that MOST of Seth readers would have loved to have been at Seth class in Elmira—and to have seen Seth speak thru Jane. Well, they have the Seth video for that…and they have the Seth CDs to hear Seth speak. They also have their dream experiences—using Seth as symbol in order to imagine hearing him speak. But MOST importantly, they have THEMSELVES to hear and learn from.

When people start claiming their dreams are facts…or that their “experiences” in other people’s probable reality are facts…Houston, er, Earth, we have a problem.

Ron Continues: In her Miami reality, Jane lived into her 80s and channeled Seth for over 40 years and channeled many more Seth books, like the Christ and Atlantis and the inside–outside books.

Barrie Responds: No, Ron. Take your pick: In YOUR imagination, in your delusion, in your fantasy, in your pretending…or maybe in one of YOUR probable realities—along with the probable realities of probably MOST Seth readers hopes and dreams—Jane did not die in 1984 but kept giving Seth material up until today even and continuing for many tomorrows.

The same with John Lennon. I would say probably ALL of his fans imagine, if you excuse the pun, that John was never killed in 1980 and went on to continue writing great songs—as the Beatles reunited in 1987—recording 10 more albums in the next 7 years—and then putting out an album every two years up until today.

And James Dean did not die in his car crash, JFK was never assassinated, Hendrix, Joplin and Morrison all became great friends when they turned 50 and play cards together each weekend.

Barrie my friend, how the hell are ya, glad ya feel that FLA is a good place to live, I did, I chose to be born in Miami in 1944, and I married and moved to VA in 1975 and we used Seth’s principals to start an entrepreneurial self-employed photos business, which we operated from 1975 to 2000, when we sold our state-wide souvenir business for a small fortune and retired MEGA-millionaires, thanks to Seth and his positive principals for value fulfillment, so, in effect, Seth helped us, a husband–wife Sethian TEAM, to attract mega abundance. That’s why i was able to help BUY the Seth House, and ALL the top, iconic Seth-Jane-Rob artifacts…because so many Sethians want to see and experience them, and my job as their curator, conservator and custodian is to SHARE them with Sethians world-wide. Me and your friend, Laurel Davies-Butts, forged a mutually beneficial reality creation in my obtaining them, the chair, the Seth portrait, the Ouija board and TONS of Jane and Rob original art, objects, etc. which are all save for the future of interest in Seth fans. Say, I have Laurels personal, private journal beginning when she left Ca to move in with Rob in 1985, whereby Laurel and Rob played THE Ouija board and Seth, Jane and Malba all came through, and this is for REAL, and later in 2019 and 2020, when I journeyed to Elmira for the Jane and Rob Seth conferences, get-togethers, I brought the Ouija board along and TWICE Oshara and Kate and I played the Ouija board and Seth briefly came through with short messages to the effect that he was well aware of what all was going on in the Seth community and his “Seeds of Seth” and this Ouija appearance by Seth was AMAZING! Your friend, one of the NY Boys, who is now in CA, I won’t mention names but you know who it is, that the other NY BBBOY actually thinks HE IS the Seth material and that was why he was called, The Pope, LOL. Also, you may like to know what all Richie Kendall confided in me a year before he transcended, about certain NY boys and how one NY boy was asked by Jane to STOP going to ESP class because of the complaints by others that HE was a distraction and that HE thought his opinion of Seth was the ONLY opinion on Seth, LOL, so HE left after a little more than a year into ESP class because he was no longer welcome by Jane, but, again, I’m not naming an names, but I understood what Richie Kendall was telling me…just speaking…and, like Seth, Ron does not need a permission slip to speak. Thanks for listening, Barrie, my good friend, see ya later…ron.

Barrie, my friend, Forgive me, as I have hundreds of my Facebook members and Seth students awaiting my nightly Seth work, and I must be prompt and see to it that they get stellar Seth, from my POV, you understand. Cheers, later, ron.

Ron Writes: Barrie my friend, how the hell are ya, glad ya feel that FLA is a good place to live, I did…

Barrie Responds: Just so that everyone will soon understand, this statement and Ron–are so crazy and creepy. I’m writing this long response to Ron–so that people know where I am coming from and what Ron is pretending—and how much he LIES—which is amazing.

You are such a disingenuous, delusional, hurtful liar and phony–it truly amazes me. Ultimately you won’t be able to fool yourself.

What am I talking about and why do I repeat it? Because the FACT is that you continue to lie and lie about me with the intent to harm and hurt cruelly and repeatedly. You lie most often BEHIND MY BACK because you know I can’t read your lies on FB because you blocked me.

And here, where I can read what you say, you say: “Barrie my friend, how the hell are ya?”

But Ron, people do let me know what lies you write behind my back…and I have confronted you on this site, I believe, and elsewhere about your lies…but here you are, all “aw shucks” and shit–and LYING again.

You remind me of Trump. You lie, are told and proven that you lie—and then you just continue lying—pretending you don’t. And then you write to me, “Barrie my friend, how the hell are ya?”

But you are not really writing to me—but pretending to the folks reading these comments that we are friends or something.

It was just ONE MONTH AGO, March 2022, that you lied your ass off about me. And here you are with your “Barrie my friend, how the hell are ya” shameful bullshit.

When your latest set of lies was exposed…you did what you always do—run and hide. And then about a month later, you write me such a fake and nauseating post. And NOW you just repeat them at the end of this post.

So, Ron, just ONE MONTH AGO you lied your ass off about me; AND NOW at the end of this post you LIE your ass off about me. What do you do with all this shit inside you? Where do you hide it in your mind?

You have repeatedly lied about me and Seth class: How no one liked me, they applauded with I left, they said I was the dumbest one in class, my wife divorced me and had to move out of state to get away from me, and more.

But briefly, for those who care to actually SEE Ron, his last set of lies about me last month–were the Seth class lies—this time it was how that people in Seth class were afraid of me because I threatened to hurt them if they disagreed with me about Seth’s concepts.

Ron Wrote (3-7-22): “Richie Kendall and Rich Wolinsky both told me many years ago that “he” was given the moniker, “The Pope” by members of Jane’s ESP class because it was his Seth interpretation and no one elses would be acceptable. He forced you to believe his way, or else, LOL. …”

Barrie NOW Comments: Now, this is all bullshit. I was never given the nickname “the Pope,” except from Ron. EVERYTHING he has just said above is an out and out and out blatant lie. NO friends at home, NO one in class, NO NY Boys, NO ONE ever ever ever ever in my entire life, except RON, gave me that nickname…not only that…even with Ron who gave me that nickname–it never fit…because I never acted like he described when he called me the Pope.

In short, this is BULLSHIT from beginning to end.

To counter this bullshit in the recent past, this is what my friend Rick Stack wrote, who people know as the publisher of the Seth material and was one of my best friends, along with Richard Kendall–two NY Boys.

“Barrie Gellis has been my friend for about 50 years. We shared many great experiences together including our deep interest in studying the Seth material and attending Jane Robert’s Seth class in Elmira NY in the 1970’s. During the period that Barrie attended class, it was obvious to me that Jane Robert’s liked and respected him, and so did the other members of class.” - Rick Stack

Barrie NOW Comments: This NOW is what Richie Wolinsky wrote when I told him about what Ron said:

Richie Wolinsky (3-7-22): “Ron is mistaken. I never said that and I never heard you referred to as ‘The Pope.’ Obviously, Dickie can’t speak for himself. But I never heard anyone call you the Pope.

“Also, insofar as I know, I’ve never thought or heard any of the boys, ever, say that you felt your interpretation was the only interpretation and everyone else was wrong. I’d further go on and say I don’t recall if you and I were in more than a couple of classes together — I assume we must have been, but basically you dropped out before I became a regular member of the class.

“I don’t know where Ron got the idea I said that to him, because I didn’t.”

Barrie NOW Comments: So, now, you know what the two LIVING people said about Ron’s false accusations and lies. But the WORST thing of all, he invokes and uses a DEAD FRIEND, Richard Kendall, who we all knew as Dickie, who had been my best friend for decades—to “support” his outrageous lies about me.

What kind of a person does that? Ron KNOWS he is lying and even using and hiding people my dead friend.

And AFTER all these lies—about ONE MONTH later—TODAY, he writes to me “Barrie my friend, how the hell are ya, glad ya.” What a phony! AND he CONTINUES the lies at the end of this post.

Anyway, just one more lie because it fits this repulsive response to me.

Ron Writes: “feel that FLA is a good place to live, I did”

Barrie Responds: What is so DISGUSTING about this was the LIE he told about a year ago, that my wife divorced me and had to run away to FLORIDA to get away from me. Of course, ALL LIES! We’ve been married uninterrupted for 37 years and counting. So, you can see, or at least I can see, Ron’s insidious and purposeful dishonesty and disingenuousness—remarking “aw shucks” how we both feel that Florida is a good place to live—like we are buddies.

Now, I just read the end of this response to me and he once again, in Trumpian fashion, doubles down on and CONTINUES his total lies about me. Jesus, this is a sick man. But now he’s leaving out Wolinksy’s name and just alluding to him altho JUST LAST MONTH Wolinksky REFUTED Ron’s lies.

And Ron also goes back to Kendall, who is dead, adding even MORE LIES. Some are repeated lies he already told (I can’t believe I even have to type out these fucking lies). This is so outrageous and unbelievable—what possesses him to try to be so cruel and dishonest?

Ron’s lies today:

  1. Barrie actually thinks HE IS the Seth material
  2. And that was why he was called, The Pope, LOL.
  3. Barrie was asked by Jane to STOP going to ESP class
  4. because of the complaints by others that HE was a distraction
  5. and that HE thought his opinion of Seth was the ONLY opinion on Seth, LOL.
  6. and that Barrie left after a little more than a year into ESP class
  7. because he was no longer welcome by Jane,

Barrie Responds: I was no longer welcomed by Jane. Ugh. It even hurts just to write that lie of his.

This is on the level of fantasy as if Ron wrote that Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer sold off the other reindeer to a meat plant so that he could get money to support his crack habit—and he knows this because Santa told him.

The only thing that IS true on that list is that I did leave Seth class after about a year—in order to find the answers for myself—and not look to outside sources. Seth had spoken a lot about this in class.

Folks, does anyone realize how deranged Ron is? Does anyone care? He just makes up these LIES AND LIES.

Some of what Ron says IS projection…I think Ron thinks of himself as the Pope of the Seth material and of himself as BEING the Seth material. Why do I say that? Because he LITERALLY wrote that he was going to take it upon himself to REWRITE the material which needed editing like an old encyclopedia:

On 2-17-18, Ron claimed to be updating the Seth material using his “dream Seth” much like an old encyclopedia needs updating. These are his words in his exchange with Diane:

Diane Wrote: “Then don’t post Seth quotes if they are not original Seth quotes. The above is not, is it?”

Ron Responded: “I post many direct Seth of Jane quotes from 1963 to 1984, that is already in print, but like my obsolete paper-print encyclopedia World Book, the company sends me updates and revisions that didn’t make it in the print edition. So as my dream Seth sends me personal updates from the ‘home office’ and I continue.”

Barrie NOW Comments: This is exactly why Seth said he would only communicate via Jane: To ensure the authenticity of the material and maintain its integrity—and protect it from people like Ron.

Also, I can’t even imagine what he means when says that I think I AM the Seth material. That makes no sense to me—other than Ron said he would re-write it or add to it.

It’s difficult for me to fathom a person like Ron and what torture must go on in his head. The other American example I can think of is Trump—who also endlessly lies and repeats lies despite them proven false.

Ron Concludes: Thanks for listening, Barrie, my good friend, see ya later…ron.

Barrie Concludes: Sickening. A sick soul, if there is such a thing.

Ron’s lie: “Barrie left…ESP class because he was no longer welcome by Jane’”

JANE’S TRUTH: This is a note Jane wrote me just a few years AFTER I left class:

She also wrote me, asking when I was coming back. When I find that note, I’ll post it, too.

Barrie my friend, Let me reveal to you a most profound spiritual poem that Jane Roberts helped me with in the dream state a couple of years ago because both Jane and Rob are Speaker–Teachers now and work with students in the dream state. Here it is and you can tell me how you like it, it is quite Sethian…it is entitled, THE WIZARD WITHIN, by Ronald H. Card


We’re off to see the wizard
in the playground of the soul,
clicked me heels 3 times together
and Magic began to flow.
Our lives are written in the stars
so let your Magic flow,
for the Wizard Within will help you
and she’s waiting within your soul.

I can see a lot of Jane in there, and she was and is a great inspiration. Let me know, ron.

Allow me to refresh Barries faulty Seth memory when he says he is not aware of Seth stating that Jane would live into her 80s, in fact, to age 87 in this Seth session. Barrie, my friend, this is for your Seth edification…Do you remember now? – ron.

TES5 Session 230 February 6, 1966.

(This led rather naturally into a discussion of ages. Seth then told Bill he saw him living until around 85, with Peggy equally old. Seth then told me I would live to be 87. This is the first time he has given me any specific age, although in several previous sessions, among them the 149th and the 217th, he has mentioned my living to an old age. In the 105th session, among others, he stated that Jane’s death was not “to occur for many years.” In our immediately past lives, spent mainly in Boston in pre-Civil War days, Jane lived to be 82 or 83 as a woman medium, and I lived to be 63 as an Episcopalian minister. We have received a limited amount of data on the Boston lives, and are not sure of our personal relationship, except that we were not man and wife. See Volume 4, for example.

(The Gallaghers left shortly after this. Jane was upset, so upset that at first she couldn’t let Seth through, even though she wanted to. I urged her to sit quietly, smoke a cigarette, and relax. In view of earlier material I remembered, I thought the 67th- year information was a distortion, and that such a distortion was natural enough when one talked about one’s own passing. I also thought that all such predictions, whether favorable or not, depended upon probabilities, in line with the latest material we have been getting. I should add here that the 105th session dealt with the death of Jane’s mother, as well as Jane living to an advanced age. The mother’s death has not yet occurred, Seth saying that the information was by way of allowing Jane to prepare herself for the shock of her mother’s death. The subject had been brought up by several vivid dreams and psychological time experiences Jane had had concerning her mother. While giving this 105th session, Seth had also had trouble getting the information through, ascribing the difficulty to Jane’s ego. See Volume 3.

(Seth went on to give us some information that I for one found surprising. After saying that Jane would live into her eighties also, he said that we would be instrumental in offering conclusive evidence for the survival of the personality after physical death. Without naming names, he told me that the one of us dying first would succeed in communicating with the surviving partner in such a way that the results would give conclusive proof “to the masses.”

Seth talked about the future in terms of probabilities.

"I have explained how at certain times a definite future may be seen, and how at other times a probable future. On some occasions the totality of probabilities all point in one main direction. These tend to form a more or less definite future, all psychic forces rushing toward it. Even this however can be altered.

At other times the probabilities point in many or several directions. " TES8, Session 359

As the future changes so does the past in pace with the present. – ron.