Eating Meat / Animals

It is interesting to me that there are definitive charts showing the correlation between human chronic disease (Heart Disease, Cancer, Diabetes, Kidney Disease, Alzheimers and the sad list goes on) and eating animals and their byproducts, like dairy and eggs. I am referring to uninfluenced studies, uninfluenced by large animal industry. Yet, seems that discussion is underplayed by Seth, as well as Abraham Hicks (who also adds to the Seth message of creating ones own reality.

I would grant that animals have a right to experience what they want to experience, feedlots, inhumane treatment and even slaughter, but I look at this stuff and feel like, in spite of anyone having a right to experience whatever they want to experience, it still seems wrong.

Anyone else ever grapple with this one? I went Whole Food Plant Based a couple of years ago and that certainly feels right for me. Bunch of health issues resolved which is interesting and could be nothing more than a belief played out.

I struggle with this too. I seem to remember both Seth and Abraham saying that to a certain extent animals know they will still exsist in some form or other and, as far as human health, there’s no reason not to eat animals, what you believe is far more important than what you eat. That said, there is still no reason for cruelty and most of the meat and dairy that is in the supermarket is got by mistreatment of animals on a massive scale. There is a “humane” butcher near my house that is extremely expensive to shop in, but it’s very popular. …

I sometimes wonder if all the meat / dairy / egg industries food related illness stems from group guilt.

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Let’s not forget that we co-create this reality. Nobody really dies, nobody really suffers. All this is a reality as the dream reality is.

( from session #28):
Individual life, or the life of the present individual, could be legitimately compared to the dream of an entity. While the individual suffers and enjoys his given number of years, these years are but a flash to the entity.
The entity is concerned with these years in the same manner that you are concerned with your dreams. As you give inner purpose and organization to your dreams, and as you obtain insight and satisfaction from your dreams though they involve only a part of your life, so the entity to some extent directs and gives purpose and organization to his personalities during their existence. And so does the entity obtain insights and satisfactions from his existing personalities, although no one takes up all of his own attentions.
And as your dreams originate with you, rise from you, attain a seeming independence and have their ending with you, so do an entity’s personalities arise from him, attain various degrees of independence, and return to him while never leaving him for an instant.
The planes represent the various levels upon which the personalities operate.

Inavalan,
I would argue that animals and people do suffer, in that they are housed in painful situations for, what seems like to them, a tortuous amount of time. And that is a real experience for them. I have seen animals caged all their lives and then let free to run in a field of grass, the joy is unmistakable, as is their sorrow while captive.

Now I do agree that after we die, all that pain and suffering would seem to melt away in terms of what we consciously take from this life.

But just because an animal incarnates into a life, willing to, or even choosing to experience pain, doesn’t mean that I should offer up that pain without question.

Say a person, who has masochistic tendencies, enjoys being hit, hitting that person doesn’t make it right. And then slide that analogy over to, say, commercial animal farming, those animals, if given the opportunity to run free in a field of grass and have a pain free life, how many of those animals would choose the feed lot? Is it possible that they are in such a negative situation in order for humanity to practice its humanity???

I’ve just wrote on the other thread, this being a Seth related forum, I was thinking in terms of Seth concepts: we create our reality, while being telepathically connected with the other participating personalities (incarnations), this being a reality as the dream reality is.

That is why I posted the quote from session #28.

I really love and appreciate animals, and I feel for the pain I perceive they might feel, but one eating each other isn’t personal, nor we eating them either (nor them eating us).

The humans who treat animals badly, in my opinion, injure more themselves, and induce more pain to themselves than to the victim, which perceives injury and pain in different terms than the perpetrator will inescapably do.

I believe, you speak from this reality perspective, while I’m looking at it from an inner perspective, considering this reality a dream, a nightmare for some, but still just a dream.

Hi Inavalan,
I hear you and do agree that we all create our destiny and experience, all of us, animals, fish, bumblebee you name it. And as such, getting upset about anything going on, seems kinda silly and not really having a firm footing in the concepts that Seth presents.

I still wonder if there is a reason behind it that involves group consciousness. Now, yes, there are no lessons, no karma in the sense of crime and punishment and I tend to think of just about everything as opportunities for greater insight into maybe a reason behind it all.

Even a dream, for me, is worth looking at and speculating upon.

The more I pay attention and understand my dreams, the more I believe they’re key to our development, and to learning to consciously create reality. When we’ll succeed in reliably creating our dream-reality, our inner-selves will be able to reliably create our awake-reality too.

Hi Inavalan,
just curious, what is you want to consciously create that needs to be first done in a dream?

I am fascinated by the dream state and really enjoy working on and achieving a lucid dream state. A great deal of discovery, I too believe, can be found in the dream state. It is also a lot of fun.

I see a strong similarity between [the awake-us vs the dream-us] and [the inner-self-us vs the awake-us].

The way we can become lucid while dreaming, meaning that the dream-us become aware of the existence and knowledge of the awake-us, the same can happen with our awake-us becoming aware of the existence and knowledge of the inner-self-us.

It doesn’t matter what one creates, neither while dreaming, nor while awake. It just matters to be able to intentionally create our reality, and not just to react to whatever happens to us, and whatever thoughts and emotions happen to us.

You may have noticed how dreams string one after another: a thought or emotion crosses your mind, and immediately it materializes branching in a new direction. When that is a fear the dream avalanches into a nightmare.

To trigger lucidity, and take control of your dream, you can use any feeling of displeasure, discontent, fear, pain, disorientation. The same could be used to become lucid while awake. I believe that dreams are a training ground, so that you can do the same while awake too.

Most dreams are symbolic messages you receive from your inner source of knowledge and guidance (your inner guide). Decoding them is very valuable, and it can be done only intuitively (not intellectually) by yourself, with the help of your inner guide.

Obviously, that’s what I believe. You may not agree.

As for the animals and the way they are treated in commercial meat production, I am pretty much appalled. For me, it seems it was something I wanted to come to terms with on a conscious level and not participate in any longer. I too, believe that nothing can be killed or destroyed, I get the whole “we go on and on, many lifetimes and we are all willing participants in everything.” It is a personal choice but I was curious if anyone else has grappled with the question of participating in the life and treatment of animals for meat, and what their conclusions were.
My father was a farmer, raised and killed many animals in his lifetime, his perspective was interesting on that topic. And as much as I dislike to see an animal in pain and suffering, I also get that on some level that animal, for what ever reason chose that experience.

In my understanding, each piece of awareness goes through a progression:
instinct >> emotion >> intellect >> intuition

This progression parallels, as far as I noticed, development and variability of any group, individual, characteristic, etc…

Starting from minerals, which lack all of the above four, the next step up are plants, that start developing instincts.

Then, animals have developed instincts, are driven by them, and start to develop emotions.

Humans almost got instincts under control, are driven by emotions, and started to develop intellect. Intuition is practically nonexistent in humans.

You can apply the same progression to the development of each person from birth to their death.

I remember Seth saying somewhere that he take a break, and sometimes he decides to “incarnate” as a tree.

By the way, I don’t know if you’re aware of this search engine in the Seth materials:
https://findingseth.com/

I recommend it.

Hi Inavalan,
I did stumble upon this search engine, just a few weeks ago and added it to my computers menu bar, it is very helpful.
I do wonder about the progression concept " minerals, plants, animals, humans." I wonder if it is just another thing we humans are trying to explain with our linear thinking. So many cultures throughout time thought of these things as the embodiment of the Gods, in other words, in a more primitive way, that the trees, the wind, fire, crystals, animals were different, yes, but sentient and aware of us humans.
I kinda like that thinking, because it speaks of a connection to all things. A sentient, conscious connection to all things. I will be the first to admit that I am caught up in the abstract poetic nature of the history of us humans.

Maybe this news, of today, fits under this thread’s subject (?)

Hi Inavalan,
Interesting synchronicity. I have been experimenting with fasting for health and spiritual reasons.

I have heard about this Yogi and other buddhist monks that claim to have gone without food or water for very extended periods of time. Seth has taught me to be pretty open minded to the seemingly “magical abilities” of us humans. I myself have experienced some amazing things that do not fit into any kind of beliefs on reality. So, I have enough of an imagination to believe that just about anything is possible.

Example, my friend Laird, regrew his thumb when it was severed at the joint. It looked a little deformed, but not that much so. He said that he didn’t know it was impossible and he just expected it to regrow and it did.

Bending reality, as we humans believe reality to be, does happen.