Dream Art Science & Dream Art Scientists

A thread exploring the nature and purposes of what is colloqually called ‘dreaming’…the space and regions of the dream plane, and the potentials of the art and science of this focus of conscousness for conscious creation and immersion in FW1. The approach I hoped for is one mre specialised and ‘scientific’ than relating dreams or the interpretation thereof. Things which might be of interest

  • Setting up and etablising a dream practise
  • creating locations in the dream plane
  • regions of the dream plane
  • techniques and tips
    -implications of continuous lucidity for the outter and inner ego
    -what the inner ego is getting up to when we are awake
  • A list of exercises and techniques within the seth material
    -Dreams and the nature of the psyche
  • Dreams and the unknown realities

and though this might sound obvious

  • Are we dreaming now, is our language adequate to discribe the sensation of it, our memories of what we get up to certainly could do with some upgrades.

You have a dream memory, of course, though you are not aware of it as a rule. There is a craft involved in the formation of events. You perform this craft well when dreaming. Event-making begins before your birth, and the dreams of unborn children and their mothers often merge. The dreams of those about to die often involve dream structures that already prepare them for future existence. In fact, towards death a great dream acceleration is involved as new probabilities are considered - a dream acceleration that provides psychic impetus for new birth.
Some of this is most difficult to explain, yet it is true to say that no event has a beginning or ending.

This is true of a life. It is true of a dream. The information is not practical in your terms, because it denies your direct experience. Upon request, however, and with some practice, you can suggest in the middle of a dream that it expand to its larger proportions. You would then experience one dream wrapped in another, or several occurring at one time - all involving aspects of a particular theme or probability, with each connected to the others, although to you the connections might not be apparent.

Each event of your life is contained within each other event. In the same way, each lifetime is contained in each other lifetime. The feeling of reality is “truer” then in the dream state. You can become consciously aware of your dreams to some extent - that is, consciously aware of your own dreaming. You can also allow your “dream self” greater expression in the waking state. This can be done through techniques that are largely connected with creativity.

Session 786, Page 139


A thought- I wonder if there is an easier way to all of this. Imagine this. What if I could bring the inner self, the dreaming Self into physical reality. How about it come do some work in physical reality?

Likewise, why do i have to be ‘asleep’- what is the big deal with sleep anyway- to be in the dream plane? Seriously? And if i am going to sleep as much as I do, then i want to remember more of what I am up to, enough of these meagerly fragment of distorted memores called ‘dreams’. They are nothing more than scraps. Taking lucidity into the dream plane would be a piece of cake if I went in lucid- i.e if I were not asleep period. deep trance states, deeper day dreaming? Not sure I have explored those potentials enough.If there was a way to modulate the brain patterns during a practise session of I did not drop into delta prematurely but stabalized around a deep theta…Now I am thinking about it- there is either a way to do it or I’ll create one.

C. Aitken

…Where have we been? What savage chaos of music
Whirls in our dreams?—We suddenly rise in darkness,
Open our eyes, cry out, and sleep once more.

We dream we are numberless sea-waves languidly foaming
A warm white moonlit shore;

Or clouds blown windily over a sky at midnight,
Or chords of music scattered in hurrying darkness,
Or a singing sound of rain .

We open our eyes and stare at the coiling darkness,
And enter our dreams again…

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I got 3 compass apps off itunes today, its time to take the north- south thing seriously…its a stange angle for the bed.I read this today and there a number of beautiful free compass app for ipad, ipod and iphone-

I suggest a more thorough examination of your dreams here, for many of them contain such spontaneous projections. They are most apt to occur in the early hours, between 3 ands 5 A.M. The body temperature drops at such times. Five in the afternoon is also beneficial from this standpoint. The drinking of pure water also facilitates projection, although for obvious reasons the bladder must be empty. The north-south position is extremely important in this context, and indeed a necessity for any efficient dream records. The reasoning part of the brain can work most efficiently along with the intuitive portions of the self when the physical organism is in that position.
The Early Sessions, Book 6
Session 274

  • now were talking creating like a boss-

In a manner of speaking, your universe and all others spring from a dimension that is the creative source for all realities - a basic dream universe so to speak, a Divine psychological bed where subjective being is sparked, illuminated, stimulated, pierced by its own infinite desire for creativity.
The source of its power is so great that its imaginings become worlds, but it is endowed with a creativity of such splendor that it seeks the finest fulfillment, for even the smallest of its thoughts
and all of its potentials are directed with a good intent that is literally beyond all imagining.
That good intent is apparent within your world. It is obvious in the cooperative ventures that unite say, the mineral, plant, and animal kingdoms, the relationship of bee to flower.
And your beliefs to the contrary, you have closed your minds to humans cooperative nature, to their innate desire for fellowship, thier natural bent for taking care of others, and for altruistic behavior.


Now that is some great information, thank you for sharing.
I never knew about this north-south-position stuff. Since the building I’m living in is oriented at a 45° angle in respect to the cardinal directions I guess I’ll need to rotate my bed halfway. Funny thing is, I usually sleep north-east to south-west-oriented, but from time to time I felt like rotating my bed about 90°. I always switched back though.
And from time to time I find myself lying in a fairly skew angle in my bed, usually one that tries to align my body more closer to the north-south-direction which I only realize now.
Another interesting point is that almost exactly north from here there is a quite strong coordination point or something like that. I basically perceive it as a giant pillar of golden light, a few meters in diameter, that is next to a small chapel built by a russian hermit who died at the age of 110 ten years ago. So when looking north it feels like I’m also aligning and connecting with the energy flow there.


I am certainly having better recall of my dream plane activities, even though I am not totally North south aligned. Its to do with proximity to the radiator and dream or no, I like being snug and warm.

My best tool at the moment is my trusty Ipad. I am downloading lucid dreaming type videos from youtube and I set them to play, its another way of getting myself to bed at a reasonable hour. The other thing I have discovered is the search function on ibooks ( no doubt kindle has that too) Given that I have a number or seth/jane books as PDFs I simply type in dreams and all the entries line up. How did anybody ever learn anything before technology?

Language- physical reality is a dream- what does that means or is it another meaningless truism…Here’s a thinker I will return to

We have not said nearly enough about the dream universe, to really launch a discussion concerning its by-product. Nevertheless I shall tell you that its by-product is the world of negative matter. TES[3] 109.

So actually before getting to excitable about the dream universe… what about the physical universe as a dream. I attended a few events by Robert Moss who encourages that perspective. Conscious dreaming & awake dreaming and its fascinating at the end of a cycle to look at the so call real events of the day as if they were dream symbols.

It goes without saying that the dream universe is every bit as real to the inner self as the physical universe is to the conscious egotistical self. The physical universe is relatively as unimportant to the inner self as the dream universe appears to be to the egotistical self… TES[4] s173.

Also this sounds like great multitasking, though I am not sure sleep is necessary to get the inner self working on stuff. I mean why not give it those instructions while waiting in the queue at safeways?

The dream experience itself, and I cannot stress this too strongly, is as real as any experience to the basic self. It follows that instructions may be given to the self, so that various problems can be solved within the dream situation. The solution may or may not be given to the consciousness. In many instances this would not be necessary. The inner ego of which we have spoken is the director of such unifying activities, and while the inner ego is mainly concerned with inner reality, it is also aware of physical existence.

I should certinly hope it is aware of physical existence!

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What is Dream Art Science

SETH SUMARI DARK ARTS-32: The Dark Arts = Dream Art Science, Mental Physics, Complete Physician

Since 1989 i always put my bed at home and in my caravan north south. I taught myself to sleep short and light.i even do drink coffee between my 2 short sleeps. An american friend gave me a dreambook when i visit her in 2001 in Florida,so i can write my dreams. I know seth taught me recalling my dreams can improove my life. I am not a DAS. But i am very happy.


Hi Aad, So glad to have you with us. We enjoy stimulating, probing Seth thought here. You might like to know that in addition to Seth Talks, Chris also hosts his Facebook site, Fans of the Seth Material (Jane Roberts) which I might say is very active, and yes, “Abrahamsters” are most welcome…later, ron…(Ronald H. Card on Facebook and FANS).

Practice Element 14

Before you go to sleep, tell yourself that you will mentally take a dream snapshot of the most significant dream of the night. Tell yourself that you will even be aware of doing this while asleep, and imagine that you have a camera with you. You mentally take this into the dream state. You will use the camera at the point of your clearest perception, snap your picture, and — mentally again — take it back with you so that it will be the first mental picture that you see when you awaken.

You will, of course, try to snap as good a picture as possible. Varying results can be expected. Some of you will awaken with a dream picture that presents itself immediately. Others may find such a picture suddenly appearing later in the day, in the middle of ordinary activities. If you perform this exercise often, however, many of you will find yourselves able to use the camera consciously even while sleeping, so that it becomes an element of your dream travels; you will be able to bring more and more pictures back with you.

These will be relatively meaningless, however, if you do not learn how to examine them. They are not to be simply filed away and forgotten. You should write down a description of each scene and what you remember of it, including your feelings both at the time of the dream, and later when you record it. The very effort to take this camera with you makes you more of a conscious explorer, and automatically helps you to expand your own awareness while you are in a dream state

“The true art of dreaming is a science long forgotten to your world. Such an art, pursued, trains the mind in a new kind of consciousness — one that is equally at home in either existence, well-grounded and secure in each. … A sense of daring, exploration, independence, and spontaneity is required. Such work is a joy.” [from Seth session 700]
—Jane Roberts, The Unknown Reality, Volume I

The inner dreaming portions of the personality seem strange to you not only because of a basic difference of focus, but because you clearly devote opposite portions of a twenty-four hour cycle to these areas of the self. You separate them as much as possible. In doing so you divide your intuitive, creative, and psychic abilities quite neatly from your physical, manipulative, objective abilities. It makes no difference how many hours of sleep you think you need. You would be much better off sleeping in several shorter periods, and you would actually then require less time.

In your sleep, you may have greeted friends who are strangers to your waking self. But consider the other side of the coin. For when you are asleep, you usually cannot find the street upon which you live in your waking hours, and when you are asleep, you do not know your waking self. The sleeping self is your identity.

There are connections between the two conditions, and there are definite realities that exist in both states, and these are what you are looking for. Only by finding these can you discover the nature of human personality and the nature of reality within which it operates

Paul Helfrich

Actually, there are no separate dimensions. They are all nested together. But Seth talks about four frameworks.

Framework One is the Outer Ego: the waking self, and the physical body, plus surface aspects of the Subconscious and subtle energy bodies.

Framework Two is the deeper Subconscious: the deeper dreaming self and deeper subtle energy bodies. It’s the mediating area, a translation area. Space/Time or Energy/Matter is literally translated through the blueprints that underlie Framework Two.

The blueprints are the same thing as “root assumptions” — the designs for the infinite potentials within Framework Two. One goal of Dream-Art Science is to discover or remember these root assumptions so we can better understand the mechanics of conscious creation, the psyche, and physical reality. There is tremendous power available when we do this. And with that power comes responsibility.

This Subconscious layer can make use of the Outer Ego — the five senses — but in itself the Subconscious is fully unmanifest. It is potentiality. It’s where we get the perennial idea of “enfolded” reality. This level holds the process of Divine Creation, the cycles. There is an action of nondual Source at this level that causes creation to happen. So Framework One evolves or unfolds from this unmanifest potentiality.

Frameworks Three and Four are the world of what Seth calls the Inner Ego: the sleeping self, and the causal energy bodies. Seth didn’t provide much detail about these frameworks, only enough to lay a foundation. Elias[3] calls them “Regional Areas of Consciousness” and offers a lot more information, particularly on the action of afterdeath transition in Regional Area 3 (see Elias article).

But when we start to open to the Inner Ego, the forms of the Dream Body become more refined, perhaps having a higher vibration. Rather than just being focused in the waking state, we are opening more and more to consciously realizing the Source Self.

None of these frameworks is separate from the others. The distinctions are just maps, signposts, not hard-and-fast divisions of Waking, Sleeping, and Deep Dreamless Sleep. They are all nested together. They all interpenetrate each other. And they all exist in the present.

That’s the theory. And I think where we’re headed in what Seth calls Dream-Art Science is toward becoming equally conversant with all these levels, and not just focused in the waking state.

We’re not there yet, but this is what I see on the horizon in the next two centuries. That’s where I think this global spiritual awakening is leading, to the opening up of the Subconscious Mind and the Inner Ego. We’re going to map the mechanics of Conscious Creation: how this world is put together, and why we’re here.

Noel Bell speaks to Robert Waggoner author of Lucid Dreaming: Gateway to the Inner Self. The interview took place at the Gateways to the Mind conference on lucid dreams which took place in London in November 2012. The event was held in the grand location of the Royal Geographical Society in Kensington.

I started by asking Robert how he came to write his hugely influential book. Robert Waggoner was a speaker at the event and demonstrated how we can all benefit from the non-physical realities. Robert taught himself a simple technique to become consciously aware in the dream state. This took place over 30 years ago. Since then, lucid dreaming, or the ability to become consciously aware while dreaming, has been proven by the pioneering research of Dr Keith Hearne, University of Hull, and Dr. Stephen LaBerge, author of Exploring the World of Lucid Dreams at Stanford University.
Many see lucid dreaming as an important psychological and therapeutic tool. In the interview Robert tells us how he became involved in lucid dreaming, what motivated him to write the book and how lucid dreaming can be potentially used as a treatment tool for clients with anxiety or even post traumatic stress disorder.

The Nature of A Seth Book Chapter 20 Dreams by Jane Roberts read by Martin John aka RvMj

Thank you for the welcome. I was a member of the FB group but i did not like it, so i left. I am still a member of a group which i cannot find anymore on the net. I wanted to leave there too. It was started after paul helfrich did close his wordview.anyone remember the name ?

First you must realize that you are dreaming. . . This knowledge automatically changes the dream state into another in which the critical faculties are aroused and operating. . . You may “awaken” in your house for example. If so, check your rooms against their normal arrangement. Anything that does not normally belong there may be an hallucination, part of the usual dreaming process. If you will such images to disappear, they will, leaving you with the basic unhallucinated environment.”


It is quite possible to take your normally conscious I into the dream state, to your advantage. When you do this you will see that the dreaming I and the waking I are one, but operating in entirely different environments. Therefore, you become familiar with depths of experience and knowledge unknown to you before. You acquire a true flexibility and expanded awareness of your own being, and open channels of communication between your waking and dreaming realities. This means that you are far better able to utilize unconscious knowledge, and also to acquaint the unconscious with your present physical situation. Such a procedure can bring you in contact with wisdom you have been denying yourself, help unify you entire life situation, and release your energy for practical everyday purposes.

The Nature of Personal Reality Session 670

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I would suggest that you tell yourselves that you will henceforth be able to remember dreams from the deeper levels of your personality, and you should find that you will be able to do so. You can also tell yourselves when you wish that you will give special attention to the nature of time and space, as these appear within your dreams. You will discover then upon awakening that many perceptions concerning time and space within the dream state will remain within you.

The Early Sessions, Book 4 Session 174

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