Stealing Seth Material and making courses from it!

Hi guys
Am samaha from Dubai
I spent 2 years studying Seth Material
And I want to ask you about “gurus” teachers and trainers stealing Seth Material and using it to make money without mentioning Seth and Jane Roberts as their source of information?

What do you think?
And why it dose bother me so much!! * even though I wanted to make a course on Seth and dreams before but I felt shity about myself when I was trying to hide the fact that it’s from Seth Material?!

:slight_smile:

You should do what you believe to be right, and not get angered ever.

I would add, that many have read or heard Seth’s words but few understood them correctly, because they filtered information through their beliefs. When I read Seth, I rarely pay any attention to what Jane, or Ron, Sue comment. When I read others’ interpretations too.

If one tries to make money of Seth, they should obey the law, firstly, and also give the credit for the knowledge where the credit is due. That’s what decent people do.

For everybody the best source of knowledge is their own inner source of knowledge, when it is tapped without bias and expectations. Most people aren’t even aware they can do that.

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Listen dude, believing you should not have ANY emotion that may come up in you is one of the most dangerous things I’ve heard someone say on here. E-motions. They move, so long as they are not stuffed down. There are no shoulds in dealing with inner emotion. Absolutely do NOT splurge your emotions on to others, but do please please please feel them and allow them to be trusted as part of you, then they will integrate instead of stagnate. And please don’t listen to folks like this dude who tell you what you SHOULD be doing on YOUR inside. In sure you mean we’ll pet, but frankly, that first comment you make in your post is pure bollocks. Just had to say so some poor soul doesn’t take you seriously (I hope)

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You do you boo, credit where credit is due. Make that course and just credit the parts that come from seth. Seth and Jane didn’t own this information, it was given freely. Just keep your conscience clean and do what feel just right. :sparkling_heart:

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Been involved in the Seth material since 1974 and the family of Seth, or We Are Seth, continues teaching right now in, Seth University, Dream Campus – my characterization, and a faculty of No-name teachers teach the endless material and all are welcome for the before sleep dream request, suggestion. The energy available to you is endless and unknown to you…ron.

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Gosh Cate, not sure what it is that upset you so. I read the comment by Inavalan about not reacting with anger and felt it was very Zen and Buddhist in nature and nothing that should make anyone angry?

Anger should just be recognized as the tool that it is to aid in the realization that we create every experience we have, not some but every experience. And upon that realization we are then better equipped to begin the journey of creating a reality that will make us feel happy.

Uh, can’t really say i was upset lovely. Like not even a tiny bit. People tend to mistake my capitol letter words for ‘upset’ but i use them for accent. And i stand by every word i said. To tell people that they shouldn’t be feeling something is not at all cool in my opinion. Just talking from my experience.
Edit: im trying very hard to accertain what it is that made you believe i was ‘angry’ with this guy (ironic, huh, given the content :joy:). He did not mention REACTING in anger, what he said is ‘you should not get angered ever’ which i VERY much disagree with. Telling people what emotions they should or shouldnt have is a dangerous game. Trust me, i grew up with well meaning christians who were always telling me the same thing (should not be sad, should not be angry) and to be honest it fucked me right up and gave me a lot of work to do in my adulthood. I tried to commit suicide three times becasue i thought I was so broken with all the feelings i was being told i shouldn’t have. No anger, but most certainly massive disagreement. Meh, this is the problem with text, people filter your words through their beliefs. I tend to try to stick to talking about WHAT someone has said, rather than HOW i think they’ve said it. I didnt like his point at all, i BELIEVE it rather dangerous for vulnerable souls in fact, so i called it out. Nothing more too it love. Be well! Hope your surviving these mental times. Lot of beliefs being shaken up world wide, eh? :kissing_heart:

…ron speaks…ALL THAT IS, or God, or whatever name you assign to Source, is, in terms you can grasp, the omnipotent electromagnetic energy force–source from which ALL existence springs.

Therefore, in short, God is ALL THAT IS. The God energy force–source exists whether it is acknowledged or denied, and one’s disbelief in the “electrical God Universe” does not negate the God Energy force-source one iota.

It is better to know and understand that you and Everything are part of the God Energy and that God Energy is an integral part of you–your being and Everything.

Knowing this lifts great weights, dissolves limiting belief systems imposed, for example, by manipulative organized fundamental religion; destroys those suppressive mental veils and frees up people’s beliefs so they can then create as the unlimited beings that they are.

The main message of the gods, if you will, is that you create your own reality according to your beliefs, intents, expectations, attitudes and desires, and you do so individually, and all together en masse. Until humankind realizes and adopts this main rule, humankind learns little.

Think of the God Energy as the plastic “glue” that holds all existence in perfect balance, symmetry, harmony and order, and you are part of the infinite–endless God Creation as you are ALL God Beings expressing in temporary physical garb upon a beautifully created earth plane, a plane all of humanity created, and you are embarked on a grand journey of exploration and creativity and your main lesson is knowing that your energy and the God energy are one and the same.

From: ESP Class Session, May 18, 1971

Seth: Now if you will allow me, creativity is born from desire. To deny creativity is to deny All That Is, is to deny the vitality that was born itself out of its own desire. To deny individuality or to speak in terms of nirvana is to deny the vitality from which all originally came, in your terms.

(To everyone.) Now in one way you are all playing childhood games with yourselves, and if you will forgive me, I will use an analogy and remember it is an analogy. And an analogy is a fable, a tale, a story, or a parable that is innately true while it may not physically appear to be so. You are all children in one way playing beneath the maple trees, dreaming in the long twilights of your adult state even as your adult selves now seemingly so independent would not know what to say to your childhood selves if you met them; but within you the childhood self must also grow, and allow it its growth. […] The boxes are not prisons anymore than the cousin of Richelieu is hidden to the housewife who is now so proudly the housewife and so contemptuous, for Richelieu’s cousin who was also contemptuous particularly of housewives.

Now each of you is a part of All That Is, highly individual and unique, like no other, and that like no otherness will never be taken from you. […] On the other hand you will continue to exist; you will continue to be responsible for the way in which you use energy; you will expand in ways now impossible for you to understand. You will learn to command energy of which you now do not know. You will realize that you are more than you realize that you are now, but you will not lose the state of which you are now aware, and regardless of the fact of reincarnation and regardless of probable selves the unique self that you now call yourself has eternal validity even though the memories that you cannot now consciously recall will be yours in their entirety. And physical life in its reincarnational self is not some chaos thrust upon you, some evil from which you must shortly hope to escape. It is a particular reality in which you have chosen to know your existence, in which you have chosen to develop yourself, and it is indeed a system, again, like no other system, a unique and dear and beloved portion of reality in which you have decided to flourish for awhile. And in denying it, again, you deny the reality of experience.

The affair in the overall will work out well for you the situation as it now exists. It will work out in the framework that you now have. Do you follow me? […] This can be compensated for by an evenness of disposition on your part …(tape was changed here, words missing) …you need not manufacture such an attitude… work out should help give it to you. […]

Now that is one level, and on another level you think, “I am of the earth and strong and vital, and those who rely upon such thin, high, intellectual matter do not know what they are talking about. […] And this is a personality that you have set up for yourself because behind it all in the French court you glorified in the use of words, in the high play of intellect in what now to you would seem to be surface, artificial qualities of stereotyped verbal behavior. You are quite able to follow any discussion in this room and it is about time that you realized it and used those intellectual abilities that are your own, and it is about time that you stopped telling yourself that you do not understand that which you well understand. […]

Because you were looking for it, and it is a life you needed to know about. Now. […] But here you were denying your intellectual abilities and projecting outward upon others, a dislike that was of your own making. […] Now that should make you feel better.

Now on the one hand their abilities and their power is based upon the inner ability and power of all of these, in your terms, alive in that particular era. However, they became what they seem to be for these chosen people have also accepted this role, and the exterior drama will be worked out in such a way that it makes sense within the time period in which it seems to take place. In this same framework, as the exterior drama begins to fade and as it has left meaning, in your terms, only now as time seems to pass, then once again the interior drama arises, but this time with a new story, with a different god and with new prophets; and as the old weakens so the new interior drama begins once more to arouse man from within his dreams, and again they choose and someone appears, or two or three, and a new drama is projected into external reality.

[…] Now your ego, your exterior self, focuses outward into physical reality. It senses this inner knowledge, but it cannot understand it. It wants to see inner knowledge projected outward onto the physical reality then, to some extent, it will accept it and so through the eons that you know this inner knowledge, this inner vitality is projected outward onto history and onto historical events as you understand them. […]

[…] You are doing well on your own and relating this material in terms of your own existence at this time, which is good. […] Now let the other relationship go. Just let it go. […] And by let it go, I mean forget it entirely. […] Let it go. And in daydreams let it go.

([Ron:] “Within this system of meditation you talked about the creative vitality and the creative energy, that the idea of the end goal is the identity of the source of All That Is …what is Buddha doing now?”)

…ron speaks…You cannot steal that which is already yours. You are the Seth material expressed through the prism of your beliefs and the filters of your biological system of sense data, and everyone perceives and interprets the material in their own way for they indeed draw upon the same inner source of information that Seth does, only Seth packages it for your easy consumption. Seth did not invent the material nor does he covet it for information comes in the door, so to speak, from many sources.

Hi Cate,
Sorry if I offended you. I have changed my stance on that reply. But as you said, you were not offended so glad of that.
I often wish this group were in a live room, and I mean in person. It is difficult to always get a clear message across and for the very reasons you mention, filtered just through someone’s mind and what is going on with them in general or that day.
And I do understand how dangerous it is to repress anger as I have had similar experiences myself, as you did.
I think my take away from this thread is that responding to a statement with an idea of personal input is one thing, but to inject myself into another’s response is quite another.
And as for these trying times, they are a bit much at times. I did a sibling cat rescue, two cats, early on in the pandemic and honestly they have saved my sanity more than I can say. Hard to get upset at anything with a purring cat on your lap. They remind me that there are far more important things to focus upon.
Hope you are doing well also. Thank you for your reply.

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I got such a nice warm fuzzy feeling when i read your reply. I can tell its filled with love and compassion. I hope i came across as reasonable. I was trying to check if I myself needed to account for anything that may have been less than helpful, i guess my capitols do come across as shouty (I’ve had my more sensitive friends say so) but they truly are just for the accent. I text like i talk. And absolutely zero offence taken. I agree, a proper in person dealy would be so much more satisfying. I’m really glad you’ve got your wee pals to keep you feeling safe and calm, my ‘cats’ are my children. Scotland is different, they’ve been in and out of school at really random intervals. The joint reality we’re creating seems to be one of a pressure cooker of evolution. I know we’ll be alright though, i can feel it in my bones. Im standing firmly in love and trust and gratitude. Its NEVER seen me wrong. Just about to start reading ‘The Unknown Reality’ again. I need a bit of Seths witty warm rationalism, get off the youtubes for a while (addictive!). So much love to you. :heart::heart::heart::pray::heart::heart::heart:

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Ron, Ypu can steal the name Seth and ride Jane’s coattails. Seth said he would never communicate via anyone but Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material— to protect it from people like you who hijack his name—not realizing you use the name Seth as a symbol of your own inner communications…,like all the others before you.

Seth did not want his material watered down by fake Seths hijacking his identity. It’s like identity theft. IF 20 people started to say post as if they were YOU or claimed you told them things you never did—then YOUR authenticity and integrity would be lost.

You once even wrote that you were going to edit or rewrite the seth material much like an old encyclopedia needs to be rewritten.

So, Ron, find your OWN inner voice and speak for yourself with no Seth crutch and no riding on Jane’s hard work and coattails.

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I think that Ron has good intentions, put a lot of energy and money into his passion for Seth, and he believes he deserves some recognition for that. He would probably get more of that if he didn’t ask for it so forcefully.

I don’t have a falsebook account, so I have no idea what is Ron’s understanding of Seth’s concepts.

I guess an interesting test question would be: when I don’t look at it, is there a Moon?

Live and let live! (easy to say … :slightly_smiling_face: )

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Hi Barrie, so nice to see you! OK, what you’re saying is that you, Barrie, control the future, and you control Seth’s future. There’s a lot you missed and ignored with the Seth material, out of your own ego making. Seth wears a guise, or, in terms of 2021, a 'folter" and he wears many guises and he has always been a teacher and will always be a teacher and is now in…Seth University, Dream Campus, where his family of consciousness, that is, Seth’s brother and sister counterparts–aspects also teach the endless material and they can go by different names. All you do, Barrie, is unfortunately project negativity upon anyone who doesn’t bow at the alter of Barrie, and, frankly, spiritual ignorance is at the basis of your negative beliefs. I once had a private talk with Rob, back in 1999 about people;s negative projections and how it comes back to the person doing the projecting. Franky, I do not need a permission slip to SPEAK on Seth’s behalf, you see. I reach WE ARE SETH by going through my vast, inner being, my wellspring of knowledge and wisdom that exists within me, and every Seth session and every ESP class session is archived in the psychic library of ALL THAT IS, and anyone can visit any session they wish, as i have on occasion. So I use my inner pathways to CONTINUE Seth’s continuing education because Seth had forty years of dictating through Jane, but, due to circumstances that occurred after Jane was born, Seth only got nearly 21 years, so there’s 19 MORE years of Seth’s work, PLUS a number of books that Seth had already to dictate that he could not get through Jane, like the Christ Book, which I have, incidentally glimpsed in the dream state, and my ten un-published Seth sessions in Rob’s transcript volume #18, contains 3 never before seen Christ sessions with very enlightening information that did not get published in book form by Rick Stack. There’s considerable Seth out there waiting to be explored and expanded upon besides the Seth that did get through Jane, you understand, Barrie, as we are all students of the ENDLESS material on our own unique paths of exploration, and my path is different from yours, but just a valid, you see. I still like you Barrie, and iIwish you well, as you, too, are going to transcend at some point as all the old guard Sethians are checking out, including me of course. At that point, we’ll meet in Seth Medieval “man cave” for a great chat!..Cheers, ron

Ron, Maybe if you didn’t block me from all your websites in order to avoid discussing Seth, then you’d have known that I was OK. Blocking me, as you know, makes communication impossible. It also makes facing challenging questions impossible. Just block those who question you.

I will happily respond to your entire response to me—but stop pretending…if possible.

@barrie: Just curious: why do you need to communicate with @ron if he doesn’t want to? To prove him wrong? To prove Seth / Jane Roberts wrong? There are other sites that discuss Seth, in many languages.

One common problem faced by various guru followers is that they fight for different interpretations of the same dogma, trying to impose their view, almost like trying to convince themselves they’re right.

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Inavalan, I have no need to communicate with Ron. With all the “fake Seths” coming out of the woodwork, I think it is important to let people know what Seth, Jane & Rob said on the subject. They didn’t want their material contaminated or risk great distortion. They repeatedly said that Seth would only communicate via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material. The repeatedly said so. I believe it is important to have Seth readers aware of what they said.

Imagine if 20 people started posting as you, Invalan. Soon, your actually words and thoughts would be lost in the mix of all the fake Invalans. Would you care about that? Well, in any case, Seth DID care.

Also, remember that EACH person that did claim, does claim or has ever claimed to communicate for Seth via speaking, writing or whatever–EACH one of them would SWEAR that they were correct and they each had their own unique special explanation as to why they were correct. And each one was mistaken, according to Seth.

So, was Seth wrong or lying when he said repeatedly that he would ONLY communicate via Jane. And is the truth that Seth would actually communicate everyone or anyone who wants him to…and that he no longer cares about the integrity of his material?

And MYSTERIOUSLY, of course, no one communicated for or with a Seth BEFORE Jane made the name popular.

With a great many “fake Seth” quotes and books thrown into public discourse, the Seth material would become a mishmash of conflicting, weak material. This is why Seth, Jane and Rob spoke out so much about it. This is THEIR words, not mine (Bold & CAPS added for emphasis only):

Seth (Session 110): "…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME

Seth (Session 454, 12-7-68, Early Sessions 9): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me**…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT**, simply because there MUST NEVER BE ANY DOUBT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE SETH MATERIAL.”

Seth (Session 510, 1-19-70, Seth Speaks): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 15, 1-13-64, Early Sessions 1): "Joseph, your part in these sessions is extremely important. WITHOUT YOUR PARTICIPATION THEY COULD NOT HAVE BEGUN, NOR COULD THEY CONTINUE. Because of our past alliances the three of us are closely bound together. However, I need the two of you in order to come through at all.”

Seth (Session 58, 6-1-64): “RUBURT and myself are offshoots of the same entity…And now, my dear patient JOSEPH, may I tell you THAT YOU ARE ALSO PART OF THAT SAME ENTITY - AND THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I AM ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU BOTH."

Seth (Session 170): “My concern is with the material I am presenting…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR MEIt is largely disregarded, the sort of personality which is required in this endeavor. It simply happens that because of past relationships I know Ruburt well, and Ruburt knows me FAR better than he imagines. He knows well who I am, and I know who he is…NOR SHOULD JOSEPH’S PART IN THIS ENDEAVOR BE FORGOTTEN. It is more complicated than you may suppose. Now, I have trained Ruburt and taught Ruburt so that his valid clairvoyant experiences can be put on some sort of scientific basis…He is an intelligent and intuitional personality, and should be given credit.”

Jane (Dreams, Evolution,Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL, and it is indeed THAT contract between him and me that always assures you of the AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK…I’M DEEPLY OUTRAGED that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth CAN SO EASILY FOOL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY CLAIM TO BE SPEAKING FOR SETH – be so blind to their own motives, or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. THEY’RE ALSO USING MY WORK TO VALIDATE THEIR OWN…"

Seth (Session 463, 2-5-69, Early Sessions 9): "Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that **I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE…**There is also something else that he seems to have forgotten–that your own relationships, yours (Rob’s) and Ruburt’s and the relationships BETWEEN US in the past, do much to make our communications possible.”

Seth (ESP Class, 3-12-74): Class Member: “Seth, would you help me in my DREAMS if I tried to contact you?”

Seth Responds: “You help yourself in your own dreams. You do not need me. You may use the SYMBOL of me, but when you do, it is a SYMBOL OF YOUR OWN INNER KNOWLEDGE, for I am the SYMBOL OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT DWELLS WITHIN EACH OF YOUR PSYCHES. I am MYSELF, but beyond that I am the SYMBOL of the knowledge that dwells within each of your psyches.”

Jane (Chap.9, 1970, Seth Material): “Mrs. Brian had a terrific headache while reading the article (about Seth); suddenly she thought she felt Seth’s presence. An inner voice, presumably Seth’s, told her that she had been feeling sorry for herself that she must stop brooding over her health at once, get up, and go out for a walk. If SO, she would improve at once…

“We asked Seth about the incident. In this case, he said, Mrs. Brian had USED HIM AS A SYMBOL OF HER INNER SELF, or SUPRACONSCIOUSNESS, to deliver help and healing influences as well as advice. The experience helped the woman to use her own abilities, and the IDEA of Seth ENABLED HER TO ACTIVATE HER OWN HEALING FORCES.”

Seth (ESP Class, 4-17-73): “If you are quick, and if you are intuitive, and if you are courageous, and if some evening you listen to my voice in the proper mood**, then you can follow YOURSELF to the heart of yourself, using the voice as a road or vehicle.**”

Rob (Dreams, “Evolution,” and Value Fulfillment, V.1, 4-18-82): "Even in God of Jane, which was published in 1981, Jane presented some relatively late material from Seth to show that he doesn’t independently communicate with others. The idea that he’d done so can be inspiring….Seth stated: ‘Now, I did not communicate with those women – but their belief in me helped each of them use certain abilities.’”

Seth (Session 47): “This material WITH ALL MY BEST EFFORTS, and with yours (Rob & Jane), of necessity must contain distortions merely in order to make itself exist at all on your planeANY material, to exist on your plane…MUST be somewhat distorted. I must use phrases with which your minds are somewhat familiar…If I did not take advantage of your own camouflage system, then YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE MATERIAL…Inner data…MUST make its entry through some distortion… THIS MATERIAL IS MORE VALID THAN ANY MATERIAL POSSIBLE ON YOUR PLANE.”

Jane (Chap.9, 1970, Seth Material): “Several people have told me that Seth communicated with them through AUTOMATIC WRITING, but Seth denies any such contacts, saying that HIS COMMUNICATIONS WILL BE LIMITED TO HIS WORK WITH ME, in order that the INTEGRITY of the Seth Material be preserved.”

Seth (Session 876, 8-27-79): "A woman wrote that she was involved with. . . correspondences in which I was communicating with her, and she was certain that this would prove beyond a doubt my own independent nature, since I [would have given] messages to another medium besides Ruburt. The woman was quite convinced of that.

"Other people have written that I have given them such messages. Another woman dreamed of me; and had an experience in which a child was definitely healed. Now, I did not communicate with those women—BUT THEIR BELIEF IN ME HELPED EACH OF THEM USE CERTAIN ABILITIES. One woman has done some writing—not very good—but still, those abilities came to the fore. The other woman was able to use her OWN healing abilities.”

Jane (God of Jane, 1981): "(A) man ‘in contact’ with Seth…wanted to inform me that I’d distorted Seth’s material on Christ, **and that Seth had TOLD him so!..**Good Christ!’ I muttered irritably to Rob when I read the letter. What about the other two people who wrote last year, each with their own versions of Christ’s life, each contradicting the other, and each supposedly containing corrections from Seth?’…

I’d written the man a brief note explaining that he was free to believe what he wanted about Christ’s life – that HE WASN’T IN CONTACT WITH SETH, BUT WITH HIS OWN SYMBOLIZED VERSION OF WHO OR WHAT HE THOUGHT SETH WAS."

Rob (Dreams, “Evolution,” and Value Fulfillment, V.1, 4-18-82): "… How come those other people made their ‘Seths’ known AFTER Jane began to speak for HER Seth, and to publish the Jane-Seth material? Being inspired to use one’s own abilities is a perfectly understandable development that we can be very happy about. But to claim to speak for Jane’s Seth…is quite another thing."

Seth (Session 463, 2-5-69): “IT IS QUITE NATURAL THAT OTHERS…who are experimenting SHOULD GO THROUGH A STAGE IN WHICH IT SEEMS TO THEM THEY ARE RECEIVING INFORMATION FROM ME. Suggestion operates, and any trance deeper than ordinary for them can be interpreted in these terms.”

Rob (Dreams, “Evolution,” and Value Fulfillment, V.1, 4-18-82): "After all, if he does come through others – or can if he wants to – why hasn’t Seth himself simply said so, and repeatedly, in the books as we’ve published them over the years? We’d have respected his statements on that aspect of his abilities and intents as much as we did – and do – on any other. To have attempted to censor Seth since 1963, say, to ‘keep him to ourselves’ on that particular subject, would have long ago turned into an impossibly complicated and dishonest task: Jane and I would have become involved in a constant distortion of his material as we rewrote the sessions. Such a procedure would have turned into a creative tragedy for us and for our readers.”

Seth (Deleted Session, 7-2-77): “Many of the people who read my books …realize that the authorities know far less than they originally supposed. They are afraid, however, of going out on their own, so to speak…

"They do not trust themselves. They do not have the stamina, or the resoluteness, however, yet, to face a reality in which THEY are the creators of their circumstances. They no longer TRUST religion or science in organizational terms…They must accept the fact that Ruburt…will dare to follow the dictates of the inner self, and this makes the entire affair more frightening to them

"… and since they distrust themselves they cannot really understand how the two of YOU trust yourselves as much as you do. They use MY position as a substitute for the authority they are trying to give up. They think "IF I HAD A SETH, I too would progress….”

Seth (ESP Class, 12-19-72): “Seth Speaks should be called You Speak and You Speak and You Speak. SO LISTEN TO YOURSELVES.”

Seth (Deleted Session 7-2-77): “People become FRIGHTENED sometimes…They want to think that I spring AUTOMATICALLY into your lives, as SUPERMAN. They did not question Superman. Only a simple change of clothing was required for our hero, Mr. Kent. They do NOT want Ruburt’s inquiring mind to intrude.

"What comic book reader wants to bother with a CLARK KENT … Or worse–wants Clark Kent to shout out from the phone booth, or wherever: “You can do (YOUR VERSION) of this too because we ALL have a reality in which we are Clark Kent AND Superman at one and the same time”? Such people simply want Superman to PERFORM his miracles.

"They want to keep Clark Kent and Superman entirely SEPARATE on a mental, psychical, and physical basis, and ONLY in the terms of our analogy…I become a SUPERSOUL rather than SUPERMAN. They do NOT want my AUTHORITY questioned…They think that if THEY had their OWN SUPERSOUL they would have FAR better sense than Ruburt, and they would use me as if I were a MAGIC GENIE. They are afraid Ruburt might…QUESTION ME OUT OF EXISTENCE, for they do NOT understand that Ruburt’s questions, and YOURS (Rob’s), your sense of integrity, are partially responsible for a “superman” rather than a SUPERMOUSE.”

Barrie NOW Comments: As I said, with all the “fake Seths” coming out of the woodwork, I think it is important to let people know what Seth, Jane & Rob said on the subject.

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@barrie : I believe I understand your indignation about those pretending to speak for / from Seth.

Have you ever had contact with a non-physical guide? I had / have. The way my relation with “him” works is: I trust his best intentions, I ask for his help and guidance, but I always keep some reservations that what I get might be distorted, I am cautious / suspicious that it might be some wishful thinking involved.

From what I read, most other people who channel are less cautious, so I imagine that many of them honestly believe and pass on all kind of distortions.

Does it matter? Only to a limited degree. In the overall framework of distortion and our living in trance, those self-deluded people don’t really matter.

Everybody who wants to progress “spiritually” (I dislike the word, but I use it lacking a better one) needs to eventually tap their own inner-source of knowledge and guidance, ask it questions, and figure out what answers can believe, and to what degree.

I believe that completely trusting any guru, dogma, including Seth as channeled by Jane Roberts, is a mistake.

Repeatedly Seth mentioned the possibility of distortions. He mentioned that other non-physical “teachers” use other methods too. Also, if he is a teacher, most likely he must have other pupils too, to whom he may introduce himself as Seth or under any other name, sex, personality, …

I guess what Seth meant when he claimed not to ever channel that material again, and to never have channeled it before Jane Roberts, he wanted to keep that material’s integrity, as a reference.

It is possible, even probable that he helped, helps, will help others too, even change some of his methods.

Anyway, this reply got longer than I intended. Bottom line, I don’t care too much to convince others of what I believe, nor of the validity of Jane Robert’s Seth’s teachings. I state my opinions, I participate in discussions, I avoid arguments as I cannot be convinced, and don’t care to convince, and keep an ear open for questions I might find interesting and look for answers, intuitively, or by asking my inner-guide. I believe that one can’t get valid answers intellectually, and even less emotionally.

Again, I see that you care, but maybe too much. If you aren’t in contact with your inner-guidance, and with your subconscious, I recommend you do it, but I don’t insist. :slightly_smiling_face:

PS: If you become too emotionally involved in this, you risk to get in Ron’s position too, and loose perspective.

Inavalan Writes: I believe I understand your indignation about those pretending to speak for / from Seth.

Barrie Responds: It is not simply indignation but also frustration. Why? Because I agree with Seth and Jane that it ultimately may hurt the Seth material as a whole by watering it down and eventually contaminating the material so much that it just becomes weak, contradictory silliness.

Inavalan Writes: Have you ever had contact with a non-physical guide? I had / have. The way my relation with “him” works is: I trust his best intentions, I ask for his help and guidance, but I always keep some reservations that what I get might be distorted, I am cautious / suspicious that it might be some wishful thinking involved.

Barrie Responds: Yes, I have. I don’t know if I would label it a non-physical guide…or an inner voice of an expansive awareness that helps me when I want the help in many different ways—including making decisions and figuring out what I want and how I feel. It is involved with many of my 4,000+ poems. Being in Seth class in Elmira, I did have contact with Seth, as well…but that was an “outer” communication—altho it included the prompting of my own inner communications as well…and Seth did refer to me as “our poet.”

I agree with and appreciate the precautions you take about inner guidance.

Invalan Continues: From what I read, most other people who channel are less cautious, so I imagine that many of them honestly believe and pass on all kind of distortions.

Barrie Responds: I agree. Seth, Jane and Rob took years trying to validate Seth and his communications. That’s what the 9 Early Sessions books were all about. Nowadays, people just claim to be channeling Seth or someone…with their proof being that they say so…and so many people just jump aboard.

Invalan: Does it matter? Only to a limited degree. In the overall framework of distortion and our living in trance, those self-deluded people don’t really matter.

Barrie Responds: I agree it doesn’t matter EXCEPT when they claim to be channeling or communicating for Seth. Then, I believe it does matter because it potentially may greatly contaminate (Jane’s word) the Seth material—and ruin its integrity and authenticity. But I don’t really care if other channelers claim to be channeling. I just assess their material with my own common sense as I hear it.

Invalan Continues: Everybody who wants to progress “spiritually” (I dislike the word, but I use it lacking a better one) needs to eventually tap their own inner-source of knowledge and guidance, ask it questions, and figure out what answers can believe, and to what degree.

Barrie Responds: I agree and have been doing so since my late teens. It is one of my continued missions in life.

Invalan Continues: I believe that completely trusting any guru, dogma, including Seth as channeled by Jane Roberts, is a mistake.

Barrie Responds: I agree.

Invalan Continues: Repeatedly Seth mentioned the possibility of distortions. He mentioned that other non-physical “teachers” use other methods too. Also, if he is a teacher, most likely he must have other pupils too, to whom he may introduce himself as Seth or under any other name, sex, personality, …

Barrie Responds: Seth did say that the material he gives to Jane comes thru with as least distortion that is possible between his plane and ours. Seth is focused outside of linear time—as such—the scope of his possible students may be far beyond our understanding and our physical plane. As for in our timeline and lifetimes now…I don’t believe he has a list of students he teaches. He explained how he needed both Jane and Rob to come thru. He repeated how he doesn’t want his work distorted. I believe he may have other pupils but none we will be having a cup of coffee with. I believe he will do nothing to harm the integrity and authenticity of his work with Jane and Rob.

Invalan Continues: I guess what Seth meant when he claimed not to ever channel that material again, and to never have channeled it before Jane Roberts, he wanted to keep that material’s integrity, as a reference.

Barrie Responds: He did not say that he never channeled before. He did say he would only communicate via Jane to maintain the integrity of his work. I believe he said something about communicating via someone else 600 years ago—but I don’t know what name he used. In my opinion, there is much more to Seth than him figuring out how to communicate with us humans. I believe he is now deeply involved with issues and teaching things that are beyond the human physical experience. Is that a fact? Not at all. But it is what I feel and believe.

Invalan Continues: It is possible, even probable that he helped, helps, will help others too, even change some of his methods.

Barrie Responds: It depends upon what linear timeline you discuss. Right now, in our lifetimes, I take him at his word and doesn’t want people starting to claim they know what “else” Seth has said or is saying about this and that—since Jane died. He probably still helps others but maybe not in the physical domain give or take hundreds of years. He does do what he does—but I believe that NOTHING he does will ruin the integrity and authenticity of his work with Jane and Rob.

Invalan Continues: Anyway, this reply got longer than I intended.

Barrie Responds: Tell me about it. That’s the story of my online responses.

Invalan Continues: Bottom line, I don’t care too much to convince others of what I believe, nor of the validity of Jane Robert’s Seth’s teachings. I state my opinions, I participate in discussions, I avoid arguments as I cannot be convinced, and don’t care to convince, and keep an ear open for questions I might find interesting and look for answers, intuitively, or by asking my inner-guide. I believe that one can’t get valid answers intellectually, and even less emotionally.

Barrie Responds: I don’t care about convincing anyone about what I believe. I DO believe in exposing people to what Jane, Seth and Rob said on the subject—and THEN they can decide for THEMSELVES. As for arguments…sometimes one person’s argument is another person’s insightful discussion. Having disagreements is one great one to better understand what my beliefs actually are. They give me the opportunity to go within on the brave journey of self-awareness—and look at what I believe from angles and perspectives that I would never come up with on my own. This helps me better understand what I believe—to strengthen, weaken or alter it—and then it helps me to better communicate to others what I find—using THEIR perspective as well as mine. So, I find “disagreements” can be extremely helpful and when followed thru to their end—usually leads to an increased feeling of closeness between the two disagreers.

I believe that people CAN get valid answers intellectually because they may be translating inner information using their expanded intellect. Intuition and intellect go hand in hand—continuing to help each other.

Invalan Continues: Again, I see that you care, but maybe too much. If you aren’t in contact with your inner-guidance, and with your subconscious, I recommend you do it, but I don’t insist.

Barrie Responds: I have been in contact with or involved with my inner guidance and expanded voice for more than 50 years. It has greatly been involved with my 4000+ poems, and my online responses as well. I do a constant inner dance of a choreography between my conscious and subconscious thoughts; between my intellect and intuition. This is why I often stay up very late. I enjoy the “twilight zone” creating and inner boundaries dissolve, so to speak. I wrote a book called The Seth Material Q&A and most of the responses I give to people are partly in a trance. When someone quotes me from my book, half the time it takes me a while to recognize it as me.

Invalan Concludes: PS: If you become too emotionally involved in this, you risk to get in Ron’s position too, and loose perspective.

Barrie Responds: Thanks, but I do know how to deal with my emotions in positive and helpful ways. I embrace them all and know there is a joy beyond and/or behind even the most grieving or upset feeling. If ever I lose my perspective in some manner, I welcome anyone to bring it up for discussion. I am always aware of the importance of taking the brave inner journey of self-awareness—the subtitle of my book.

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Ron, Here is what Seth, Jane and Rob said about people making claims as you make them:

With a great many “new Seth” quotes and books thrown into public discourse, the Seth material would become a mishmash of conflicting, weak material. This is why Seth, Jane and Rob spoke out so much about it. This is THEIR words, not mine (Bold & CAPS added for emphasis only):

Seth (Session 110): "…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME

Seth (Session 454, 12-7-68, Early Sessions 9): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me**…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT**, simply because there MUST NEVER BE ANY DOUBT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE SETH MATERIAL.”

Seth (Session 510, 1-19-70, Seth Speaks): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 15, 1-13-64, Early Sessions 1): "Joseph, your part in these sessions is extremely important. WITHOUT YOUR PARTICIPATION THEY COULD NOT HAVE BEGUN, NOR COULD THEY CONTINUE. Because of our past alliances the three of us are closely bound together. However, I need the two of you in order to come through at all.”

Seth (Session 58, 6-1-64): “RUBURT and myself are offshoots of the same entity…And now, my dear patient JOSEPH, may I tell you THAT YOU ARE ALSO PART OF THAT SAME ENTITY - AND THIS IS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY I AM ABLE TO COMMUNICATE WITH YOU BOTH."

Seth (Session 170): “My concern is with the material I am presenting…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR MEIt is largely disregarded, the sort of personality which is required in this endeavor. It simply happens that because of past relationships I know Ruburt well, and Ruburt knows me FAR better than he imagines. He knows well who I am, and I know who he is…NOR SHOULD JOSEPH’S PART IN THIS ENDEAVOR BE FORGOTTEN. It is more complicated than you may suppose. Now, I have trained Ruburt and taught Ruburt so that his valid clairvoyant experiences can be put on some sort of scientific basis…He is an intelligent and intuitional personality, and should be given credit.”

Jane (Dreams, Evolution,Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL, and it is indeed THAT contract between him and me that always assures you of the AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK…I’M DEEPLY OUTRAGED that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth CAN SO EASILY FOOL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY CLAIM TO BE SPEAKING FOR SETH – be so blind to their own motives, or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. THEY’RE ALSO USING MY WORK TO VALIDATE THEIR OWN…"

Seth (Session 463, 2-5-69, Early Sessions 9): "Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that **I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE…**There is also something else that he seems to have forgotten–that your own relationships, yours (Rob’s) and Ruburt’s and the relationships BETWEEN US in the past, do much to make our communications possible.”

Seth (ESP Class, 3-12-74): Class Member: “Seth, would you help me in my DREAMS if I tried to contact you?”

Seth Responds: “You help yourself in your own dreams. You do not need me. You may use the SYMBOL of me, but when you do, it is a SYMBOL OF YOUR OWN INNER KNOWLEDGE, for I am the SYMBOL OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT DWELLS WITHIN EACH OF YOUR PSYCHES. I am MYSELF, but beyond that I am the SYMBOL of the knowledge that dwells within each of your psyches.”

Jane (Chap.9, 1970, Seth Material): “Mrs. Brian had a terrific headache while reading the article (about Seth); suddenly she thought she felt Seth’s presence. An inner voice, presumably Seth’s, told her that she had been feeling sorry for herself that she must stop brooding over her health at once, get up, and go out for a walk. If SO, she would improve at once…

“We asked Seth about the incident. In this case, he said, Mrs. Brian had USED HIM AS A SYMBOL OF HER INNER SELF, or SUPRACONSCIOUSNESS, to deliver help and healing influences as well as advice. The experience helped the woman to use her own abilities, and the IDEA of Seth ENABLED HER TO ACTIVATE HER OWN HEALING FORCES.”

Seth (ESP Class, 4-17-73): “If you are quick, and if you are intuitive, and if you are courageous, and if some evening you listen to my voice in the proper mood**, then you can follow YOURSELF to the heart of yourself, using the voice as a road or vehicle.**”

Rob (Dreams, “Evolution,” and Value Fulfillment, V.1, 4-18-82): "Even in God of Jane, which was published in 1981, Jane presented some relatively late material from Seth to show that he doesn’t independently communicate with others. The idea that he’d done so can be inspiring….Seth stated: ‘Now, I did not communicate with those women – but their belief in me helped each of them use certain abilities.’”

Seth (Session 47): “This material WITH ALL MY BEST EFFORTS, and with yours (Rob & Jane), of necessity must contain distortions merely in order to make itself exist at all on your planeANY material, to exist on your plane…MUST be somewhat distorted. I must use phrases with which your minds are somewhat familiar…If I did not take advantage of your own camouflage system, then YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE MATERIAL…Inner data…MUST make its entry through some distortion… THIS MATERIAL IS MORE VALID THAN ANY MATERIAL POSSIBLE ON YOUR PLANE.”

Jane (Chap.9, 1970, Seth Material): “Several people have told me that Seth communicated with them through AUTOMATIC WRITING, but Seth denies any such contacts, saying that HIS COMMUNICATIONS WILL BE LIMITED TO HIS WORK WITH ME, in order that the INTEGRITY of the Seth Material be preserved.”

Seth (Session 876, 8-27-79): "A woman wrote that she was involved with. . . correspondences in which I was communicating with her, and she was certain that this would prove beyond a doubt my own independent nature, since I [would have given] messages to another medium besides Ruburt. The woman was quite convinced of that.

"Other people have written that I have given them such messages. Another woman dreamed of me; and had an experience in which a child was definitely healed. Now, I did not communicate with those women—BUT THEIR BELIEF IN ME HELPED EACH OF THEM USE CERTAIN ABILITIES. One woman has done some writing—not very good—but still, those abilities came to the fore. The other woman was able to use her OWN healing abilities.”

Jane (God of Jane, 1981): "(A) man ‘in contact’ with Seth…wanted to inform me that I’d distorted Seth’s material on Christ, **and that Seth had TOLD him so!..**Good Christ!’ I muttered irritably to Rob when I read the letter. What about the other two people who wrote last year, each with their own versions of Christ’s life, each contradicting the other, and each supposedly containing corrections from Seth?’…

I’d written the man a brief note explaining that he was free to believe what he wanted about Christ’s life – that HE WASN’T IN CONTACT WITH SETH, BUT WITH HIS OWN SYMBOLIZED VERSION OF WHO OR WHAT HE THOUGHT SETH WAS."

Rob (Dreams, “Evolution,” and Value Fulfillment, V.1, 4-18-82): "… How come those other people made their ‘Seths’ known AFTER Jane began to speak for HER Seth, and to publish the Jane-Seth material? Being inspired to use one’s own abilities is a perfectly understandable development that we can be very happy about. But to claim to speak for Jane’s Seth…is quite another thing."

Seth (Session 463, 2-5-69): “IT IS QUITE NATURAL THAT OTHERS…who are experimenting SHOULD GO THROUGH A STAGE IN WHICH IT SEEMS TO THEM THEY ARE RECEIVING INFORMATION FROM ME. Suggestion operates, and any trance deeper than ordinary for them can be interpreted in these terms.”

Rob (Dreams, “Evolution,” and Value Fulfillment, V.1, 4-18-82): "After all, if he does come through others – or can if he wants to – why hasn’t Seth himself simply said so, and repeatedly, in the books as we’ve published them over the years? We’d have respected his statements on that aspect of his abilities and intents as much as we did – and do – on any other. To have attempted to censor Seth since 1963, say, to ‘keep him to ourselves’ on that particular subject, would have long ago turned into an impossibly complicated and dishonest task: Jane and I would have become involved in a constant distortion of his material as we rewrote the sessions. Such a procedure would have turned into a creative tragedy for us and for our readers.”

Seth (Deleted Session, 7-2-77): “Many of the people who read my books …realize that the authorities know far less than they originally supposed. They are afraid, however, of going out on their own, so to speak…

"They do not trust themselves. They do not have the stamina, or the resoluteness, however, yet, to face a reality in which THEY are the creators of their circumstances. They no longer TRUST religion or science in organizational terms…They must accept the fact that Ruburt…will dare to follow the dictates of the inner self, and this makes the entire affair more frightening to them

"… and since they distrust themselves they cannot really understand how the two of YOU trust yourselves as much as you do. They use MY position as a substitute for the authority they are trying to give up. They think "IF I HAD A SETH, I too would progress….”

Seth (ESP Class, 12-19-72): “Seth Speaks should be called You Speak and You Speak and You Speak. SO LISTEN TO YOURSELVES.”

Seth (Deleted Session 7-2-77): “People become FRIGHTENED sometimes…They want to think that I spring AUTOMATICALLY into your lives, as SUPERMAN. They did not question Superman. Only a simple change of clothing was required for our hero, Mr. Kent. They do NOT want Ruburt’s inquiring mind to intrude.

"What comic book reader wants to bother with a CLARK KENT … Or worse–wants Clark Kent to shout out from the phone booth, or wherever: “You can do (YOUR VERSION) of this too because we ALL have a reality in which we are Clark Kent AND Superman at one and the same time”? Such people simply want Superman to PERFORM his miracles.

"They want to keep Clark Kent and Superman entirely SEPARATE on a mental, psychical, and physical basis, and ONLY in the terms of our analogy…I become a SUPERSOUL rather than SUPERMAN. They do NOT want my AUTHORITY questioned…They think that if THEY had their OWN SUPERSOUL they would have FAR better sense than Ruburt, and they would use me as if I were a MAGIC GENIE. They are afraid Ruburt might…QUESTION ME OUT OF EXISTENCE, for they do NOT understand that Ruburt’s questions, and YOURS (Rob’s), your sense of integrity, are partially responsible for a “superman” rather than a SUPERMOUSE.”

Barrie NOW Comments: As I said, with all the “fake Seths” coming out of the woodwork, I think it is important to let people know what Seth, Jane & Rob said on the subject.