Stealing Seth Material and making courses from it!

I’D like to reach everyone on planet earth. Are any media outlets listening?

I’m Ron Card, age 76, and I live in central Virginia with my wife of 47 years. I have a message for any earthlings who care to listen.

Say, on the subject of UFOs and ETs, why don’t you interview a genuine UFO/ET contactee, one that has remained silent for nearly 60 years, done so out of a concern of not wanting any spotlight nor invasion of privacy?

I’ve keep mostly silent about my “face-to-face” encounter and nearly one year involvement with a “space man” back in early 1962, when I was a high school kid in Miami, FL. I’m now a retired photojournalist and I have shared part of my contact story on Facebook with open-minded members.

The main reason why the ETs will not reveal themselves any time soon, as far as open, public contact is concerned, is because it would undesirably cause WW 3, due to instigating a global clash of beliefs, something totally contrary to what the highly advanced ETs know and understand about what life is all about, about why we’re here and where we’re going. They have absolutely no intention of interfering in earth’s internal affairs, for earth has to deal with its own issues on its own without open interference.

The space people are under no divine obligation to contact us openly. But they have always contacted individuals privately, however. Additionally, they have always sent messengers with messages to the earth plane, down through the ages, who have appeared from many “other” worlds. They have always dressed in the period garb of the time in which they have appeared and using the then intellect and vocabulary available in order to get their messages across.

I think many people are now open minded enough to hear a refreshing, enlightening yet alternative point of view about most everything. To briefly explain, back in 1962 when I was contacted, some of my first questions to “him” were, what is your name, where did you come from, Is there a God, do you believe in God, where is God, is there a devil, a heaven, a hell, what happens to me when I die and what is the purpose of life on earth. These were burning questions I wanted answers to.

He was a non-physical being who psychically “thought” an energy body into temporary physical existence within our visible spectrum for the purpose of comfortably relating to me. He explained that he was developed enough to be able to manipulate the ever-present universal “God” energy for his use and advantage. He could have just as easily appeared to me as female or an older person. Yes, in short, what you call God, is the “one” omnipotent vast electromagnetic energy field, or force–source, from which all existence springs…that is, God is All That Is.

Before my contact, I had developed innocent questions that I was not getting adequate, believable answers to from family, friends, teachers and clergy…why?, because I began thinking about life for myself at an early age, trying to draw my own conclusions, and I was not buying into the usual available answers, they didn’t seem logical, and it seemed that stuff was getting shoved down my throat by my elders, those whom I was told I should never question, however, I did not feel comfortable blindly accepting stuff that did not seem right to me. I wanted more, I wanted real answers and didn’t know where to turn to. I aimed my probing thoughts, out of this world for help.

Then, curiously, in the fall of 1961, I began observing many UFOs, strange phenomenon, in the skies over Miami over many months, and I continued aiming my thoughts “out there” and soon I was contacted face to face by a highly evolved profound ET teacher who picked up on my projected thoughts and who made the decision to go ahead and contact me. He told me that he had contacted other earthlings and helped them.

He spent nearly a year, during many impromptu meetings, answering my many probing questions…answers that were amazingly simple and logical to understand, and I think the time is right in the 2020s to share some of the information that I received decades ago. He naturally had to gear his answers to my level of understanding and comprehension of the English language and also explanations immersed within the then present technological development of earth society.

From what I see at my age, actually, a so-called, flower child of the 60s Hippie movement, is that mainstream government, religion and science, to name a few areas, are directly responsible for the world condition, the human condition, in general terms, being messed up confused and misled mainly by ego-driven men out of an insatiable sense of greed, gain, power and control over the people. This does nothing but lead, as it has done so for millennia, to discontent, distrust, chaos and war and killing. It seems to me that power-hungry, ego-driven men do all the destroying and woman, on the other hand, are the creators and nurturers of society.

I was told by this sage space teacher that we are in sort of elementary school, enrolled upon the “school house earth” plane of physical existence and we’re here for the purpose of learning how to live together in peace, love, equality and harmony, or else we will continue upon the path of the old destructive ways. I feel that it is time for a change in beliefs and direction of intent and it will be a slow process but it will come about and fairly soon, because the earth needs new direction and a riddance of the old ways, ways of mostly failure and discontent.

I was told that we are watched over and cared for by others; both spiritual teachers on the earth plane and those teachers who are from beyond earth, many of whom exist in inconceivable realities beyond our conscious threshold of understanding, many of whom are not physical as we know physical life, but who all work in mysterious ways, that is, magical ways. Just know that these helpful other intelligent beings exist and care for our well being. The time has come for Renaissance Two, my term, the shift in consciousness that is in the works and will come to fruition at some point in the probable future.

Ronald H. Card on Facebook.

…ron speaks…There are different grades and levels of Seth information, as there are different grades in school, and the teachers are no different. For continued enlightening information from the family of Seth, or, We Are Seth, see session 419, the pyramid energy gestalt family that sent Jane’s Seth to teach on the earth plane, try the before sleep self suggestion, that you will task your inner being to deliver you to an invisible desk in “Seth University, Dream Campus” and you will arrive and experience a whole faculty of no-name “Seth” teachers who present a super curriculum based upon the ever-present and ever-changing “material” of which Jane’s Seth gave us his considered opinion of based upon his extensive experience, that is why Seth called it the Seth material, but Seth did not own it, for no one can possibly encompass ALL THAT IS. All Speakers interpret the available, changing material in their own ways and teach accordingly.

In my dream classes in Seth University, my teachers defined “God” as the one primary omnipotent pyramid energy force – source that pervades all existence, that is, God is the consciously inconceivable, incomprehensible electromagnetic energy force that holds all existence in perfect balance, harmony, symmetry and order. Thus, the electrical universe Seth discussed. God is ALL THAT IS.

For your information, on another topic, one concerning Seth revealing Christ information, during the session(s)where Seth revealed that the historical personage we know of as Christ, was not the man who was crucified, but another man was crucified in Christ’s place, because there was no ID to be had back then, and that man who was crucified thought that he was the Christ, and it was he who raised his hand when the Roman soldiers came looking for this Christ person, and the historical Christ, who observed the crucifixion from the audience along with Mary “M,” had no reason to sacrifice his body in such a manner.

During that Seth session, Rob asked Seth a question since he had gotten Rob’s curiosity piqued, and Seth agreed, and Rob asked who was the man who was actually crucified, and Seth revealed the name, and told Rob NOT to reveal the name in the material because of the possible negative ramifications that could befall Jane and Rob, and also a publisher who would not wish to print such blasphemous information, so Seth told Rob and Jane to keep the name to themselves, which they did, and Jane was very uncomfortable with Seth revealing Christ information because of her early indoctrination in the Catholic Church, however, Seth did manage to get considerable bits and pieces of Christ’s true messages put into the Seth books.

Seth told Jane that she could have his Christ book any time she wanted it, but Jane did not want it and would not allow it for many reasons. Jane would also block Seth here if she did not like what Seth was about to come out with, and Seth knew it, and sometimes complained that Jane did indeed, block him. Jane was the gatekeeper of what Seth came out with, you see.

Now how does ron know the name of the man who was crucified in place of Christ? Because ron attends Seth University, Dream Campus, and there is NO Seth session or Jane’s ESP class session, that cannot be psychically visited and “sat in on” so to speak, by any Seth enthusiast who makes the dream contact. All Seth sessions are public knowledge for those who dream, as all time is simultaneous, and Seth is still giving those sessions right now, and your point of power to visit those sessions, is NOW. And those session also change with the times.

Therefore, as Seth said…"A closed mind perceives nothing. And, as Seth said, “Those who speak on my behalf…” and, “When you are ready, I will be there to inspire you.”

And, for your information, a few years ago, I obtained from Laurel Davies-Butts, Rob’s UNIQUE session transcript volume #18, 1975, which Laurel told me contained a dozen NEVER before published Seth sessions never got into book print, sessions of which a few were on Christ, and one on Atlantis, and one on Rob’s mother, and a few other topics, so you all have not read ALL of what Seth dictated, there is more Seth that has not been released, and the unpublished sessions that I have are extremely enlightening! I know the name of who was really crucified, and it is no secret in actuality. A clue, his initial is “S.” Dream. – Ronald H. Card on Facebook.

Guys, your fights reminded me of this:

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Samaha Writes: I don’t know what you are talking about but for fuck sake let’s stop arguing and fighting about who’s is the smartest mother fucker here!

Barrie Responds: Speaking for myself: Well, for fuck’s sake, if you say that you don’t know what I am talking about—then how do you know what I’m saying, what my points are, what I am trying to convey OR that it is even about who is the smartest motherfucker here?

But here is a clue: IF you did actually KNOW what I was talking about, THEN you would KNOW that it has absolutely nothing to do with who is smarter or not smarter.

You would KNOW that I was talking about what Seth, Jane and Rob actually said about Seth only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material and to avoid distortions as much as humanly possible. THAT is what I am talking about. Perhaps you can follow that the one sentence summary.

And by the way, personally, like you, I agree. I don’t give a shit about who is or who is not the smartest motherfucker on this board or anywhere on the planet.

Sam Continues: I am going to say this in the nicest way possible – “Who gives a fuck!”

Barrie Responds: Well, concerning who is the smartest motherfucker, I’d say in the nicest way possible—that I guess no one gives a fuck, including me.

But in the nicest way possible: This that is NOT what my posts have been about. I believe they have been about what many Seth readers may give a shit about…the maintaining of the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material Seth, Jane and Rob stated they wanted…in their own words.

Sam Continues: I am here in sethtalks website because I want to have a safe loving online community where I can read enjoy learn and chat about Seth material with other Seth readers!

Barrie Responds: Well, you are on a Seth board with a diverse group of human beings—which means many things do go on—as did happen in Seth class. And, I’ll give you another clue, you ARE in a safe loving online community. Just because people sometimes argue or display passion—does not mean that you are NOT safe or people are NOT loving.

Seth (ESP Class, 12-2-78): “So those of you who speak on my behalf, let there be times of boisterous activity. Let there by play. Let there even be time for discord if that is what is needed, but never, and I know you would not, never impose an artificial ceiling of peace. For peace is active.”

Barrie Continues: And my posts have actually been in line with your stated goals for yourself on this board—you can enjoy learning what Seth, Jane and Rob said about Seth only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material.

And do you know what else? You have the simple POWER and ability to ignore any posts you don’t like—AND to create any posts that you would like to see here.

Sam Continues: If I want to fight argue and read comments filled with fights and arguments I will go to Facebook Twitter and real life for this shit!

Barrie Responds: Well, then I’d suggest don’t fight or argue—altho it is very human to sometimes do so-and Seth does suggest to express and not repress your emotions.

Seth (Session 634): “Any attempt to impair the flow of true aggression results in a distortive, uneven, explosive pseudo-aggression that causes wars, individual neurosis, and a great many of your problems in all areas.”

Seth (ESP Class, 1-16-73): "Anger is as right as rain or a storm cloud. When you are afraid of it, you try to be angry without showing anger…

“Now, if you are afraid of anger, you rationalized your response --because you did not want to say, ‘Yes, I experienced the release of my good and righteous anger’ – that is a No-No:

"Anger, released, is as natural as rain or clouds, as magnificent as a storm, and as necessary. Denied, it becomes something else entirely, and then it turns to violence…

“If you spontaneously let out your hostility when you felt it, you would not have this super charge that you felt you must throw out or be damned…The problem is not what you think of as your negative thoughts, but your fear of them.”

Barrie Continues: I would also suggest that you can EASILY choose not read comments filled with what you consider fights and arguments—and just IGNORE them. There are plenty of other threads and posts on this board you may enjoy.

And I’ll add one more thing for your edification: If a person outright states that they don’t know what people are talking about—it may be difficult for them to ascertain who, if anyone, is fighting and/or arguing, why…and about what.

But the bottom line is simple–and to say in the nicest way possible—IF you don’t want to read a post, how about not reading it? Find those posts you enjoy to read…and also maybe…write some posts that you’d like to see here on topics you’d love to discuss.

Sam Continues: Am sorry but please let’s keep this space beneficial and safe for everyone!

Barrie Responds: This space is already safe for everyone and beneficial. And remember, just because you don’t like a thread…that you can’t follow and don’t understand…and even IF you did know what was going on—that doesn’t mean that others necessarily feel the same way as you.

And just because you believe something is not beneficial to you—it still very well may be beneficial to others…and maybe even to you in ways that you do not yet realize.

Sam Continues: Thank you, Samaha

Barrie Responds: You are welcome, Barrie.

This divisiveness seems to have escalated into to a personal problem that I hope doesn’t spread. Two egos fighting over who is the most right. I recently was delighted to find a couple of Facebook Seth groups that are inspiring to me. I started studying/reading Seth on my own in the early 70s. I had no idea you could even tour their Elmira apartment, etc., I shouldn’t be surprised or disappointed that in this day & age that people want to make $, media-ize, dramatize, publicize anything Seth. Good intent on both sides of these two people I’m sure, but poorly & publicly executed, not doing anyone else any favors by witnessing this in my humble opinion. Best thing for ME is to not focus on BS like this & scroll on by. As Seth stated many times, “You get what you concentrate upon. There is no other main rule”

WJ Writes: This divisiveness seems to have escalated into to a personal problem that I hope doesn’t spread. Two egos fighting over who is the most right.

Barrie Responds: IF you are referring to me, my interest is not my ego. I am passing on what Seth, Jane and Rob said about Seth only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material. Also, he wanted to cut down on distortions as much as humanly possible. And he added that people will use his name as a symbol for their own inner communication. And how needed Rob was in the whole process. I do so for Seth readers to be aware of what they said on the subject.

I respond to those who respond to the post and join the discussion. Who responds is out of my control, in everyday terms.

So, it is not a question if I am right or not. IF anything, it is a question of who is right. IF you are talking about Ron—then the question is: Who is right? Ron or Seth, Jane and Rob?

I don’t know if you read any of the 21 excerpts I gave…so I will just repeat a few of them, CAPS added for emphasis only:

Seth (Session 110): "…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME

Seth (Session 454, 12-7-68, Early Sessions 9): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me**…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT**, simply because there MUST NEVER BE ANY DOUBT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE SETH MATERIAL.”

Seth (Session 510, 1-19-70, Seth Speaks): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 170): "My concern is with the material I am presenting…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME…”

Seth (Session 463): Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE. He need not worry. Besides, I like him too well. There is also something else that he seems to have forgotten–that your own relationships, yours (Rob’s) and Ruburt’s and the relationships BETWEEN US in the past, do much to make our communications possible. You transmit also, or rather you act as a transmitter whether you are at a session or not. So unless there is another identical (underlined) Ruburt and Joseph combination, I am stuck with you. (Smile.)

Jane (Dreams, Evolution,Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL, and it is indeed THAT contract between him and me that always assures you of the AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK**…I’M DEEPLY OUTRAGED that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth CAN SO EASILY FOOL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY CLAIM TO BE SPEAKING FOR SETH – be so blind to their own motives,** or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. THEY’RE ALSO USING MY WORK TO VALIDATE THEIR OWN…"

Barrie Comments: Jane wrote this about two years before she died. I believe it is important for Seth readers to know firsthand and directly what Seth, Jane and Rob said on this topic. When I see someone post that they are now communicating for Seth, I post the 21 quotes. I don’t want people to just rely on what these “Seth-claimers” say. Then, Seth readers can decide for themselves what they want to believe. I am passing on what Seth, etc, said on the subject—and then discussing it with whomever responds. As you just did.

WJ Continues: Best thing for ME is to not focus on BS like this & scroll on by. As Seth stated many times, “You get what you concentrate upon. There is no other main rule”

Barrie Responds: Well, another rule is that you attract what you see based on your beliefs, thoughts, expectations and emotions–and then characterize what you see thru the filter of those beliefs.

I would not call passing on to Seth readers what Seth, Jane and Rob themselves directly said about Seth only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material BS. I would not call their attempt to maintain their material BS.

And any lively or unlively discussion in this endeavor is just part of the human process of discussing it. And your post is now part of that discussion.

Seth (ESP Class, 12-2-78): “So those of you who speak on my behalf, let there be times of boisterous activity. Let there by play. Let there even be time for discord if that is what is needed, but never, and I know you would not, never impose an artificial ceiling of peace. For peace is active.”

I am sure that you have the best intentions, but I believe that the way you go about that doesn’t bring the results you’re hoping for.

The way I read them, your posts are too long, convoluted, and vehement.

On the other hand, I don’t think that it really matters if others make false claims about channeling Seth. Everything is multi-layered symbolical. It matters what one interprets from what one perceives. Even Jane’s interpretation of her channeled material was inherently distorted to some degree.

You know … you create your reality.

I happen to have considerable “Seth only” communication that mr. B has no knowledge nor insight into, there is much more Seth that has not been published, no book reference, and I obtained this “unseen” Seth from Laurel Davies Butts beginning in 2013, and in my recent “Hill House Horde” of abandoned, left behind Jane, Rob and Seth material that the woman to whom Laurel sold the Hill house at 1730 Pinnacle Road to in 2010, and she salvaged considerable material which she sold to me in 2020, a car full of Seth goodies! I can make decisions and interpretations on this Seth material that mr. B has no idea about…there is MORE Seth…ron, who hosts, SETH FORCE - The Adventure in Consciousness Continues, on Facebook. Have a peek…thanks, ron.

inavalan Writes: I am sure that you have the best intentions, but I believe that the way you go about that doesn’t bring the results you’re hoping for.

Barrie Responds: What results do you think I am hoping for? As for me, the results I am hoping for is simply that people become aware of what Seth, Jane and Rob said on the subject of Seth only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material. This includes how important it was to Seth to limit distortions as much as humanly possible; how needed Rob was in this whole process; and how people would use Seth’s name as a symbol for their own inner communication. Then, they can decide for themselves what to think of this subject. That is the result for which I hope.

That said, if you saw all the “thank yous” that I have received over the years by so many people on so many sites and in emails, then you’d actually see how glad and thankful people are that I am trying to pass on what Seth, Jane and Rob said—while encouraging me to keep on doing it. They greatly outnumber the online complaints.

So, of course, you are entitled to your beliefs about how I go about doing it—but I’d say that on every level—I have direct evidence that counters your contention—and I also have different beliefs about it.

inavalan Continues: The way I read them, your posts are too long, convoluted, and vehement.

Barrie Responds: Well, that IS the way you read them. That is totally, of course, based on and filtered thru your beliefs. I would say that sometimes my posts on this subject are too long, but mostly not.

As for vehement…I looked up the word and it means “powerful” and “deeply felt.” The LAST definition means “bitterly antagonistic.” I assume that is the meaning you have in mind…and to that I fully disagreement. I believe my posts are honest, sincere, sometimes passionate—and once in a while—given the hundreds of times I posted these quotes on various sites—rarely antagonistic in the negative sense.

With Ron, over the years…he has actually publicly, nastily and actually with hostility…lied about me, changed his story, throws in straw men and refuses to engage concerning what I actually write—that parts of my responses to him can be frustrating—and I can be antagonistic to him—as in “actively expressed opposition or hostility.” And I assume you refer to the “hostility” part.

But even with Ron, any hostility I express is a SMALL part of my overall “long” responses to him—focusing on what he has said in his response to me. It can become frustrating at times dealing with this type of character. It seems that these parts are the ones that stand out in your mind.

I bet that if you look over some of my “long” responses, you will see the truth of what I am saying. And then, in regards to my responses to others, there is no hostility—as in this response to you—and with the others.

As regards to “convulated” – there I just disagree. My responses can be and SHOULD be, in my opinion, “involved and intricate” – as the dictionary says—but not in any “torturous” ways—except for those who find it torturous to read such involved and intricate things. And THIS is in their belief system, and not intrinsic to my posts.

This is not a simple subject to discuss online—especially when the “fake Seth” folks’ explanations ARE actually sometimes so convoluted.

As you can see with this response to you, I like to and enjoy responding to what people actually write. This sometimes can become “long” and also involved and intricate.

But as always, you are entitled to your opinions, of course.

inavalan Continus: On the other hand, I don’t think that it really matters if others make false claims about channeling Seth.

Barrie Responds: Well, it may not matter to you, but it DID matter to Seth, Jane and Rob.

Let me remind you that I am posting THEIR words and ideas—not mine.

They cared about this issue and mentioned it many times…as you can see in my 21 excerpts. By the way, have you actually read the 21 excerpts and thought about them?

inavalan Continues: Everything is multi-layered symbolical.

Barrie Responds: I agree. And Seth pointed out that people would use the name Seth as a symbol for a their own inner communications.

inavalan Continues: It matters what one interprets from what one perceives.

Barrie Responds: Well, more than one thing can matter at the same time. Of course, it matters what one interprets from what one perceives. Would you care to elaborate on your point here?

inavalan Continues: Even Jane’s interpretation of her channeled material was inherently distorted to some degree.

Barrie Responds: I’m not sure what you mean here. Not to be convoluted, but do you mean the material she got from Seth had distortions in it…OR…do you mean her interpretations of what Seth said had distortions in it?

Seth said that the material he gave Jane DOES have as few distortions as possible from his dimension to ours.

As for the latter, what do you mean by an “interpretation” having distortions? Do you mean that people can interpret things in different ways? IF so, then I agree.

BUT if you look at the 21 quotes—these do not contain metaphysical or philosophical content. They are straightforward comments in everyday terms. For example:

Seth (Session 110): "…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME

Seth (Session 454, 12-7-68, Early Sessions 9): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me**…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT**, simply because there MUST NEVER BE ANY DOUBT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE SETH MATERIAL.”

Seth (Session 510, 1-19-70, Seth Speaks): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 170): "My concern is with the material I am presenting…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME…”

Seth (Session 463): Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE. He need not worry. Besides, I like him too well. There is also something else that he seems to have forgotten–that your own relationships, yours (Rob’s) and Ruburt’s and the relationships BETWEEN US in the past, do much to make our communications possible. You transmit also, or rather you act as a transmitter whether you are at a session or not. So unless there is another identical (underlined) Ruburt and Joseph combination, I am stuck with you. (Smile.)

Jane (Dreams, Evolution,Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL, and it is indeed THAT contract between him and me that always assures you of the AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK**…I’M DEEPLY OUTRAGED that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth CAN SO EASILY FOOL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY CLAIM TO BE SPEAKING FOR SETH – be so blind to their own motives,** or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. THEY’RE ALSO USING MY WORK TO VALIDATE THEIR OWN…"

Barrie Comments: So, if you care to follow up on your “interpretation” comment—how would you interpret these quotes and where do find something open to differing or alternative interpretations?

inavalan Concludes: You know … you create your reality.

Barrie Concludes: Yes, I agree…so do you and all on this board and on the planet.

You may like to know that in my “Laurel secret journal” her work in detail from when she arrived in Elmira on Aug. 23, 1985, at Rob’s invitation to move in with him and help assist in the work of organizing the voluminous Seth material, I see where Rob and Jane played THE Ouija board on Jan. 20, 1986, and Seth and Jane and Malba Bronson came through and gave very interesting information, and that Laurel journal was in amongst my acquired, “Hill House Horde” that I obtained in 2020. Now what does mr. B have to say about that? I have her hand-written journal that fell into my hands because it was meant to be. Seth never said that he would not contact Seth students on the earth plane through other means of psychic communication apart from channeling. Mr B has no answers because he is at a big loss, because he does not control Seth and the material and the continuation of the ENDLESS material, as Seth admits to. Seth and his family of teachers, referred to as, We Are Seth, in the material, teach the material in Seth University, Dream Campus, my characterization, and the nightly classes are amazingly productive. – ron.

I found out that when interpreting symbols, guidance, higher knowledge, it matters only what you understand, and not what others understood, not even what the author wanted to convey (when there is an author).

This is because your inner source of guidance uses whatever vehicle available, in which it embeds the guidance intended for you in symbolic form. Often the symbolism is multi-layered, and if you get deeper you get other deeper meanings.

I believe that for me it isn’t relevant what others understood from Seth’s teachings, but only what I understood. Leaving aside the misinterpretations and distortions, everybody who reads the Seth material can and should understand whatever fits thier own individual level of evolvement. Mostly every time you re-read Seth, you get another, deeper understanding, because you already changed.

For me Seth is helpful for comparing notes. I don’t read Seth to learn how things are, but to compare to what I learned about reality directly from my own guidance. Most of the times I get confirmation, although almost always it is different from what other Seth readers understood.

This explains why although so many millions of people (I guess) were exposed to the Seth material, most of them didn’t really learn much. There are people who from Seth moved to Abraham-Hicks, which is definitely a step back, and some even moved into Eastern stuff, like non-dualism, which is ridiculous (I was oscillating between calling that amusing, and calling that sad, realizing that I wanted to spare them).

@ron I’m happy for you that you found value in the unpublished material you acquired, and it is nice that you share it with others.

I don’t think that there is a need for more material from Seth, or for a clearer version of what Seth already “said” through Jane Roberts.

I believe that the reason for which people misunderstand the material (in a great degree) is that they see it like a bible, or a school book.

You have to approach it with your intuition, not your intellect; even less with your emotions and wishful thinking.

Just re-reading the published Seth material in a deeper intuitive state will reveal deeper layers of meaning (think onion).

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Barrie Had Written: “So, if you care to follow up on your “interpretation” comment—how would you interpret these quotes and where do find something open to differing or alternative interpretations?”

inavalan Quotes Himself: “Everything is multi-layered symbolical. It matters what one interprets from what one perceives. Even Jane’s interpretation of her channeled material was inherently distorted to some degree.”

inavalan Comments on the Above Two Quotes: I found out that when interpreting symbols, guidance, higher knowledge, it matters only what you understand, and not what others understood, not even what the author wanted to convey (when there is an author).

Barrie Responds: I see that you are unwilling for whatever reason to offer how you would interpret the few quotes I offered and then give some your “interpretations” and to then say where you find something open to differing or alternative interpretations.

And so I am asking you again: How would you interpret these six quotes and where do find something open to differing or alternative interpretations?

Seth (Session 110): "…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME

Seth (Session 454, 12-7-68, Early Sessions 9): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me**…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT**, simply because there MUST NEVER BE ANY DOUBT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE SETH MATERIAL.”

Seth (Session 510, 1-19-70, Seth Speaks): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 170): "My concern is with the material I am presenting…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME…”

Seth (Session 463): Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE. He need not worry. Besides, I like him too well. There is also something else that he seems to have forgotten–that your own relationships, yours (Rob’s) and Ruburt’s and the relationships BETWEEN US in the past, do much to make our communications possible. You transmit also, or rather you act as a transmitter whether you are at a session or not. So unless there is another identical (underlined) Ruburt and Joseph combination, I am stuck with you. (Smile.)

Jane (Dreams, Evolution,Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL, and it is indeed THAT contract between him and me that always assures you of the AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK**…I’M DEEPLY OUTRAGED that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth CAN SO EASILY FOOL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY CLAIM TO BE SPEAKING FOR SETH – be so blind to their own motives,** or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. THEY’RE ALSO USING MY WORK TO VALIDATE THEIR OWN…"

Barrie Comments: I await your willingness to model your comments—by first offering your own interpretations—and then try to imagine alternate interpretations.

Now to the rest of your response:

inavalan Continues: This is because your inner source of guidance uses whatever vehicle available, in which it embeds the guidance intended for you in symbolic form. Often the symbolism is multi-layered, and if you get deeper you get other deeper meanings.

Barrie Comments: So, inavalan, use some of the excerpts above to model your comments. Where in these quotes is symbolism multi-layered? Where is the deeper meaning to Seth saying, “My communications will come exclusively through (Jane) at all times, to protect the integrity of the material.”

I fully understand the philosophy you are trying to overlay on these comments—altho you offer no examples in these 6 quotes.

But to look at another angle: If I say, “I want pizza for lunch” it doesn’t mean that I want to climb up a flag pole. Many things are straightforward and many things are layered with symbols—but where layering may exist—does not obfuscate the obvious clarity of some or many comments.

As with my “pizza” example. The pizza may remind me of my childhood, symbolize the plight of dairy farmers or the difficulties of operating a restaurant. It may symbolize human need for food or the various colors that exist in all things, hunger in other places around the world. But NONE of these possible layered symbols make hidden or obscure the FACT that I said I wanted pizza for lunch.

inavalan Continues: I believe that for me it isn’t relevant what others understood from Seth’s teachings, but only what I understood.

Barrie Responds: I have not been discussing people having different understandings of Seth’s teachings. I AM talking about what Seth, Jane and Rob CLEARLY said about Seth only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material, to avoid distortions as much as humanly possible, how needed Rob was to the whole process AND how Seth said people would use his name as a symbol for their own inner communication.

THIS is what I am talking about. This is what THEY clearly said. I am NOT talking about people having different understandings of the material.

inavalan Continues: Leaving aside the misinterpretations and distortions, everybody who reads the Seth material can and should understand whatever fits thier own individual level of evolvement. Mostly every time you re-read Seth, you get another, deeper understanding, because you already changed.

Barrie Responds: I agree and I never said or thought otherwise.

inavalan Continues: For me Seth is helpful for comparing notes. I don’t read Seth to learn how things are, but to compare to what I learned about reality directly from my own guidance. Most of the times I get confirmation, although almost always is different from what other Seth readers understood.

Barrie Responds: First, so let’s compare notes: I am asking for your “interpretations of those six Seth quotes above.

Second, I hope you realize that this has nothing to do with the subject about which I’ve been posting. I’m not talking about why people read Seth, what they learn and how much people agree or disagree on what they read. But I will say that in MY experience, I have found that most people have agreement on the basics of what Seth says—reality creation, simultaneous time, probable lives, and on and on–even if they may not agree on the detailed how and the why of it.

And in Seth class where Seth’s concepts were fully discussed each week—there was mostly agreement. Disagreement may occur concerning some details—but consensus was often found in these cases.

But to repeat, this is not the subject of what I’ve been posting.

inavalan Continues: This explains why although so many millions of people (I guess) were exposed to the Seth material, most of them didn’t really learn much.

Barrie Responds: I wouldn’t say this at all. I’m actually shocked you would even say that “most people” don’t learn much from the Seth material–after writing me about all these multi-symbols and meanings. How would you even ascertain that? People may learn differently than you do but to say they haven’t learned much? What a comment.

inavalan Continues: There are people who from Seth moved to Abraham-Hicks, which is definitely a step back, and some even moved into Eastern stuff, like non-dualism, which is ridiculous (I was oscillating between calling that amusing, and calling that sad, realizing that I wanted to spare them).

Barrie Comments: I can’t believe you are saying these things after all you said about different interpretations and so forth. Some people get a great deal from Abe—and these folks believe Seth is not as informative. THAT is their experience based on their beliefs and spiritual awareness and understanding. The same with “Eastern stuff.” Each person has their person, religion or group that speaks to THEM. Maybe not to you, but to them. Do you realize how many people would say the same type of things to you and all Seth readers concerning our perceived errors and weaknesses involving Seth concepts?

BUT none of this, tho, has ANYTHING AT ALL to do with this thread which was on Seth saying he would only communicate via Jane and why.

Ron Writes: Seth and his family of teachers, referred to as, We Are Seth, in the material, teach the material in Seth University, Dream Campus, my characterization, and the nightly classes are amazingly productive.

Barrie Concludes: Sure they do, Ron…as symbols for your own inner communication, at best. You can repeat this all you want…and you do…but that doesn’t make it so.

As Seth said to a class member:

Seth (ESP Class, 3-12-74): Class Member: “Seth, would you help me in my DREAMS if I tried to contact you?”

Seth Responds: “You help yourself in your own dreams. You do not need me. You may use the SYMBOL of me, but when you do, it is a SYMBOL OF YOUR OWN INNER KNOWLEDGE, for I am the SYMBOL OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT DWELLS WITHIN EACH OF YOUR PSYCHES. I am MYSELF, but beyond that I am the SYMBOL of the knowledge that dwells within each of your psyches.”

Ron, this is my longer response. So, you will see even if you won’t read what I have to say:

Ron Writes: You may like to know that in my “Laurel secret journal” her work in detail from when she arrived in Elmira on Aug. 23, 1985, at Rob’s invitation to move in with him and help assist in the work of organizing the voluminous Seth material…

Barrie Responds: OK…and…

Ron Continues: I see where Rob and Jane played THE Ouija board on Jan. 20, 1986, and Seth and Jane and Malba Bronson came through and gave very interesting information, and that Laurel journal was in amongst my acquired, “Hill House Horde” that I obtained in 2020.

Barrie Responds: First, I assume you made a typo and meant to say, “I see where Rob and LAUREL played THE Ouija board on Jan. 20, 1986…”

So, assuming that is the case, IF Seth and Jane came thru to Rob and Laurel…what’s the surprise or big deal? Of course he can come thru to Rob—and there is no reason why Laurel’s presence would affect or change that…

Ron Continues: Now what does mr. B have to say about that? I have her hand-written journal that fell into my hands because it was meant to be.

Barrie Responds: Mr. B says—so what? As in…therefore what? What I have to say is that it is no surprise that Rob would be able to contact Seth and Jane or a or THE Ouija board. As far as “meant to be” goes–it may be said that EVERYTHING is meant to be…including my sharing with Seth readers what Seth, Jane and Rob actually said on the subject of Jane only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material; in order to reduced distortion to what is humanly possible; and how needed Ron was in the process and that people, like you and others, would use Seth as a symbol for their own inner communication.

Ron Continues: Seth never said that he would not contact Seth students on the earth plane through other means of psychic communication apart from channeling.

Barrie Responds: In the 21 Seth quotes—to which you (Ron) have NEVER responded—Seth didn’t limit his communications only via Jane as being thru channeling only—he included automatic writing, in the dream state and other ways.

I know that you will ignore these as you have always done…but here are a few quotes on this perspective anyway (CAPS and bold added for emphasis only):

Jane (Chap.9, 1970, Seth Material): “Several people have told me that Seth communicated with them through AUTOMATIC WRITING, but Seth denies any such contacts, saying that HIS COMMUNICATIONS WILL BE LIMITED TO HIS WORK WITH ME, in order that the INTEGRITY of the Seth Material be preserved.”

Seth (Session 876, 8-27-79): "A woman wrote that she was involved with. . . correspondences in which I was communicating with her, and she was certain that this would prove beyond a doubt my own independent nature, since I [would have given] messages to another medium besides Ruburt. The woman was quite convinced of that.

"Other people have written that I have given them such messages. Another woman DREAMED of me; and had an experience in which a child was definitely healed. Now, I did not communicate with those women—BUT THEIR BELIEF IN ME HELPED EACH OF THEM USE CERTAIN ABILITIES. One woman has done some writing—not very good—but still, those abilities came to the fore. The other woman was able to use her OWN healing abilities.”

Jane (God of Jane, 1981): "(A) man ‘in contact’ with Seth…wanted to inform me that I’d distorted Seth’s material on Christ, **and that Seth had TOLD him so!..**Good Christ!’ I muttered irritably to Rob when I read the letter. What about the other two people who wrote last year, each with their own versions of Christ’s life, each contradicting the other, and each supposedly containing corrections from Seth?’…

“I’d written the man a brief note explaining that he was free to believe what he wanted about Christ’s life – that HE WASN’T IN CONTACT WITH SETH, BUT WITH HIS OWN SYMBOLIZED VERSION OF WHO OR WHAT HE THOUGHT SETH WAS." end qts

Barrie Comments: Briefly contacting a class student—who Seth has met and spoke to either individually or as part of a class group—or even people who Jane personally met and so Seth also met—is nothing like Seth communicating to others to give new material, to update the material like an old encyclopedia as YOU have claimed, or anything like that.

As Seth said TO a class member:

Seth (ESP Class, 3-12-74): Class Member: “Seth, would you help me in my DREAMS if I tried to contact you?”

Seth Responds: “You help yourself in your own dreams. You do not need me. You may use the SYMBOL of me, but when you do, it is a SYMBOL OF YOUR OWN INNER KNOWLEDGE, for I am the SYMBOL OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT DWELLS WITHIN EACH OF YOUR PSYCHES. I am MYSELF, but beyond that I am the SYMBOL of the knowledge that dwells within each of your psyches.”

Barrie Comments: To briefly remind you and others what Seth and Jane actually said in these 6 of the 21 quotes:

Seth (Session 110): "…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME

Seth (Session 454, 12-7-68, Early Sessions 9): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me**…I WILL NEVER SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE OTHER THAN RUBURT**, simply because there MUST NEVER BE ANY DOUBT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE SETH MATERIAL.”

Seth (Session 510, 1-19-70, Seth Speaks): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 170): "My concern is with the material I am presenting…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME…”

Seth (Session 463): Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE. He need not worry. Besides, I like him too well. There is also something else that he seems to have forgotten–that your own relationships, yours (Rob’s) and Ruburt’s and the relationships BETWEEN US in the past, do much to make our communications possible. You transmit also, or rather you act as a transmitter whether you are at a session or not. So unless there is another identical (underlined) Ruburt and Joseph combination, I am stuck with you. (Smile.)

Jane (Dreams, Evolution,Value Fulfillment–Essay 5, 4-18-82): “And–very troublesome to me–came the repeated news that various people were ‘speaking for Seth’ publicly, and charging hefty-enough fees. I felt that my work was being CONTAMINATED, and more, I was annoyed and disappointed by those readers who could apparently be so taken in by those other Seths. As he has said so many times, SETH SPEAKS ONLY THROUGH ME, TO PROTECT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MATERIAL, and it is indeed THAT contract between him and me that always assures you of the AUTHENTICITY OF SETH’S WORK**…I’M DEEPLY OUTRAGED that some people who consider themselves ‘followers’ of mine or Seth CAN SO EASILY FOOL THEMSELVES WHEN THEY CLAIM TO BE SPEAKING FOR SETH – be so blind to their own motives,** or not recognize the fact that they’re taking advantage of people. THEY’RE ALSO USING MY WORK TO VALIDATE THEIR OWN…"

Barrie Comments: So, Ron, try something different and discuss each of these quotes giving you “interpretations.”

Ron Continues: Mr B has no answers because he is at a big loss, because he does not control Seth and the material and the continuation of the ENDLESS material, as Seth admits to.

Barrie Responds: Of course, I have answers…you just posted this today…and I just recently saw it.

And here you go again, off the deep end, as I see it, repeating nonsense. What nonsense? That I control Seth or try to control Seth. THAT is silly nonsense. To no avail, I have repeatedly said that I do not control Seth or the material in any way. Yet, you keep repeating that ridiculous claim. Why?

Letting Seth readers know that Seth, Jane and Rob repeatedly said Seth would only communicate via Jane —is not by ANY stretch of the imagination—me trying to control Seth.

But as I think about YOUR words…I can see that you seem to project onto me YOUR behavior–in that you seems to say that you can control Seth just by the asking for him. If you ask for Seth, he appears. Now, THAT seems to be a claim of controlling Seth…just to use YOUR terms.

The material being endless has nothing to do with Seth only communicating via Jane. IF what you imply about the material being endless is true—then before and after Jane—for centuries in both directions—Seth would be coming thru non-stop everywhere every day.

The material is endless because it is akin to ancient wisdom.

Ron Concludes: Seth and his family of teachers, referred to as, We Are Seth, in the material, teach the material in Seth University, Dream Campus, my characterization, and the nightly classes are amazingly productive.

Barrie Concludes: Sure they do, Ron…as symbols for your own inner communication, at best. You can repeat this all you want…and you do…but that doesn’t make it so.

As Seth said above:

Seth (ESP Class, 3-12-74): Class Member: “Seth, would you help me in my DREAMS if I tried to contact you?”

Seth Responds: “You help yourself in your own dreams. You do not need me. You may use the SYMBOL of me, but when you do, it is a SYMBOL OF YOUR OWN INNER KNOWLEDGE, for I am the SYMBOL OF THE KNOWLEDGE THAT DWELLS WITHIN EACH OF YOUR PSYCHES. I am MYSELF, but beyond that I am the SYMBOL of the knowledge that dwells within each of your psyches.”

Barrie Comments: And as Seth2 said about multi-dimensional personality structures:

Seth2 (ESP Class, 1-13-70): *“*You do NOT understand multi-dimensional personality structures.”

Barrie Comments: And that includes you, too, Ron.

Barrie, I won’t argue with you.

Barrie Responds: Where do you see me trying to argue with you? No where. I am not trying to argue with you. I am responding sincerely to your post–asking you to discuss the six quotes and give your interpretations and offer alternative ones if you think exist. And I was also saying that towards the end, you brought up issues that were not the topic of my post–but I responded anyway.

To me that subject (if Seth said or not that he won’t channel through another person) is irrelevant, unimportant.

Firstly, your idea of “Seth will not” proves that you misunderstand physical time.

As far as I know, inner guides, as Seth is, guide many people simultaneously, anywhere in the physical time.

Seth was / is a guide; that’s what he does.

Enthusiastically, he tried to disseminate knowledge and guidance through Jane to a larger number of people. There are other entities that do the same thing. All the channeled information is filtered and distorted to some degree by the human channel.

It is a human perspective to put a person or even humanity in the center of existence, and overemphasize their importance.

But, again, it doesn’t matter if Seth is guiding now anybody else, as there are zillions of guides who guide absolutely everybody, and it can’t be said that Seth is a better guide than another, at least from our human perspective.

It is possible for other people to honestly believe that they channel Seth. It doesn’t matter. What people should concentrate on, is to minimize distorting the guidance they receive, being aware that what they “receive” might be quite distorted by their beliefs, expectations, emotions, etc

You can use your dog as your inner guide, or a tree, or whatever. It matters to get in a state in which you can access your inner guidance. But there are always distortions to some degree.

You have a confrontational style that feels like arguing, and I don’t feel like trying to convince you of anything.

I replied here just because I see you struggle with an issue that I believe to be irrelevant, and a misunderstanding of what channeling is.

Take it easy ,

inavalan To me that subject (if Seth said or not that he won’t channel through another person) is irrelevant, unimportant.

Barrie Responds: So, just to be clear, you believe that it is “irrelevant and unimportant” what Seth, Jane and Rob actually clearly and directly said about Seth only communicating via Jane to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material. I’m curious, do you think Seth meant what he said? Was he lying to Jane and Rob and his readers?

Also, I am not being confrontational…but just curious…did you actually read the 21 Seth excerpts I provided?

My mission, goal or purpose for posting these quotes is so that people can read for themselves what Seth, Jane and Rob actually said on this subject—so then they can decide for themselves what they believe—and not just based on what the “Seth” claimers say.

So, with you, my goal has been successful IF you actually did read the 21 excerpts.

Also, by the way, In the excerpts, Seth said he would not communicate via anyone else but Jane in order to maintain the authenticity and integrity of the material. And it was not just limited to channeling. So, IF Seth, Jane and Rob clearly said this—why is that irrelevant and unimportant?

(CAPS and bold added for emphasis only):

Seth (Session 454, 12-7-68, Early Sessions 9): “My friend here, Ruburt, is my mouth, and speaks for me…I will never speak through anyone other than Ruburt, simply because there MUST NEVER BE ANY DOUBT OF THE ORIGIN OF THE SETH MATERIAL.”

Seth (Session 510, 1-19-70, Seth Speaks): "MY COMMUNICATIONS WILL COME EXCLUSIVELY THROUGH (JANE) AT ALL TIMES, to protect the integrity of the material…”

Seth (Session 170): "My concern is with the material I am presenting…RUBURT (LOUDER) WILL PRESENT MY MATERIAL FOR ME…”

Barrie Comments: If this did have something just to do with physical time, then why didn’t Seth EVER say that? And you leave out their concern to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material.

While Jane was alive, Seth did respond to the many people claiming their Seth communication and he refuted each and every one—and each one was sure that it was Seth.

Seth DID say that people would use his name as a symbol for their own inner communication.

Isn’t this “symbol” explanation much more likely rather than that everything Seth said on this subject is irrelevant and unimportant because he is a guide who exists outside of linear time?

inavalan Continues: Firstly, your idea of “Seth will not” proves that you misunderstand physical time. As far as I know, inner guides, as Seth is, guide many people simultaneously, anywhere in the physical time.

Barrie Responds: I do believe that Seth understands physical time. I do believe Seth could have easily said everything you are now saying. He could have said, “I am a guide outside of physical time and so I will communicate via anyone who asks.” Or something like that.

Seth said that the last time he spoke was in our “distant past” –and even then he needed the personal connections that he had with Jane and Rob:

(CAPS and bold added for emphasis only):

Seth (Session 464): "Now, when you see what Ruburt can do occasionally, and the troubles I can have with distortion, then you can be sure that I WOULD NOT DOUBLE OR TRIPLE THE CHANCES FOR DISTORTION BY ATTEMPTING TO SPEAK THROUGH ANYONE ELSE. He needs not worry. Beside, I like him too well.

"There is also something else that he seems to have forgotten–that your own relationships, yours and Ruburt’s and the relationships between us in the past, do much to make our communications possible. You transmit also, or rather you act as a transmitter whether you are at a session or not. So unless there is another IDENTICAL Ruburt and Joseph combination, I am stuck with you. (Smile.)

" Now in the past, in your DISTANT PAST, when I spoke through others, or portions of my entity did so, then SUCH PERSONAL CONNECTIONS ALSO EXISTED with those through whom we communicated. Do you follow me here?

Barrie Comments: So, Seth the “guide”–in your words—is saying that he or portions of entity spoke thru others in the distant past. He is not saying anything close to what you are now claiming. And Seth is aware of the nature of time and physical time. Sorry. And he is not implying that after Jane dies, he will start actively communicating with everyone. And he could have said that, too. Is he lying?

Also, you are leaving out the whole reason why he said this. He wanted to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the Seth material and also reduce distortions as much as humanly possible. He also pointed out our needed Rob was in the process. He needed both Rob and Jane. And now you believe that Rob was not needed much at all?

And why would Seth not mention in any way–any of what you are saying anywhere in the material—keeping it from Jane and Rob and all of his readers?

inavalan Continues: Seth was / is a guide; that’s what he does.

Barrie Responds: No offense, but none of us have any idea concerning all of what Seth is…or all of what a guide does? And where or how or what dimension?

Seth2 (ESP Class, 1-13-70): “YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND MULTI-DIMENSIONAL PERSONALITY STRUCTURES.”

Barrie Continues: So, are you, inavalan, claiming that you do understand these multi-dimensional personalities? You are free to claim so, of course.

But in any case, you keep leaving out that Seth’s concern here was to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material. Why wouldn’t he just say whenever the topic came up—and it came up regularly when Jane was alive—something like anything you are now saying about him.

And also, IF what you are saying is valid, then why aren’t their dozens, hundreds or thousands of people claiming a Seth before Jane popularized the name, during the physical time he worked with Jane, and after her death.

There is no evidence of this anywhere. It is only after Jane’s books that people started to claim Seth communicates via them thru dreams, automatic writing, voice in head, etc.

inavalan Continues: Enthusiastically, he tried to disseminate knowledge and guidance through Jane to a larger number of people. There are other entities that do the same thing. All the channeled information is filtered and distorted to some degree by the human channel.

Barrie Responds: Yes.

inavalan Continues: It is a human perspective to put a person or even humanity in the center of existence, and overemphasize their importance.

Barrie Responds: Yes.

inavalan Continues: It is possible for other people to honestly believe that they channel Seth. It doesn’t matter. What people should concentrate on, is to minimize distorting the guidance they receive, being aware that what they “receive” might be quite distorted by their beliefs, expectations, emotions, etc

Barrie Responds: Of course it is possible for other people to honestly believe that they channel Seth. I would say 99 percent of them honestly believe it. And so did all those when Jane was alive—and Seth refuted each and every one of them. Just because most of these honestly believe it…doesn’t make it is so.

Yes, people should try to minimize distortion…if they even think about it.

Let me be clear about one thing, if the material someone presents as being from Seth is a million times better than Seth via Jane—it would still be contaminating his material—because it would still not be Seth based on what he, Seth, said. Seth’s name would still be a symbol, but the material would be great.

This what Seth actually about distortions with Jane (CAPS and bold added for emphasis only):

Seth (Session 47): “This material WITH ALL MY BEST EFFORTS, and with yours (Rob & Jane), of necessity must contain distortions merely in order to make itself exist at all on your planeANY material, to exist on your plane…MUST be somewhat distorted. I must use phrases with which your minds are somewhat familiar…If I did not take advantage of your own camouflage system, then YOU WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THE MATERIAL…Inner data…MUST make its entry through some distortion… THIS MATERIAL IS MORE VALID THAN ANY MATERIAL POSSIBLE ON YOUR PLANE.”

Barrie Comments: Look at that last sentence, “This material is more valid than any material possible on your plane." So, you are also saying that now Seth doesn’t care about great distortions as well?

inavalan Continues: You can use your dog as your inner guide, or a tree, or whatever. It matters to get in a state in which you can access your inner guidance. But there are always distortions to some degree.

Barrie Responds: Yes, of course there are always distortions. And I have often said that it doesn’t matter the source. Your inner guide can be a fire hydrant. It is the material that counts.

inavalan Continues: You have a confrontational style that feels like arguing, and I don’t feel like trying to convince you of anything.

Barrie Responds: Well, aren’t you actually saying, “Because of my beliefs, I see you as having a confrontational style” That is very different than simply stating “You have a confrontational style.”

I agree that to you I have a confrontational style…but I do not agree that I actually have a confrontational style.

And I would be happily be more than willing to discuss this with you …so please provide some quotes or evidence that you base your opinion on—so that we can actually discuss it.

inavalan Continues: I replied here just because I see you struggle with an issue that I believe to be irrelevant, and a misunderstanding of what channeling is. Take it easy.

Barrie Responds: Thanks, but I am not struggling with these issues at all.

What I am doing is letting Seth readers know what Seth, Jane and Rob actually said on the subject of Seth only communicating via Jane in order to maintain the integrity and authenticity of the material and his desire to have as little distortion as is humanly possible. Along with, in their own words, how important Rob was to this whole process and that people would use Seth as a symbol for their own inner communication. THEN, people can decide for themselves and on their own what they believe and why—including what Seth, Jane and Rob said—and not solely based on what the Seth-Claimers say.

So, I have succeeded with you IF you actually did read the 21 quotes. You are now aware of what Seth, Jane and Rob actually said—and you choose to declare it “irrelevant and unimportant.”

IF you wish to discuss channeling, I would also happily do so.

I probably read them first time when you posted them. This subject doesn’t matter, in my opinion, so I am not interested in reading and talking about it.

I explained that what Jane channeled from Seth tens of years ago wa partially distorted, and it is difficult to say what is and what isn’t Seth’s intended message.

From Seth’s perspective, he may have channeled these days before he channeled through Jane. His time isn’t our time.

Jane’s words are’t that important, as what we understand, and that depends on each one of us level of evolvement when we read them.

Seth is a teacher, and he teaches many others. That’s what he does. He may have taught in the past, in the future or in the present, and will teach in the past, in the future and in the present.

There are zillions of such teachers. Every one of us is guide, no matter if we know it or not consciously.